You’re right, I didn’t come at this neutrally. I didn’t get that you were talking from the perspective of being a guy, sorry. I respect that you still try to assume good intentions and you’re right that it will probably get you further than assuming the worst about people.
I might have been talking about a different point than you, but my view on that is still the same. I just do not think the guy in question had other intentions than to pick up a girl and I do not agree with his conclusion at the end. The whole concept of the incel mentality is just frustrating to me and I have no idea how to handle that.
And yes you’re right, that if the guys were a bit more elaborate on why dude was in the wrong they could’ve helped the dude. I mean he probably doesn’t have friends in the first place which makes it even worse to try and talk to people.
Oh, I’m with you there! Women being treated like not only is their presence permission to hit on them, but that they have to accept it or end up the target of abuse is way out of hand.
A lot of it comes from a lack of guidance, imo. Back in my youth, the shit that was in movies and on TV perpetuated the whole persistence model of romance, and young men never got told that it was not realistic. I knew so many boys and young men that genuinely thought they had to be aggressive (as opposed to just presenting themselves) because there was the idea that women want that. And, yeah some people do value aggression and persistence in their idea of romance, but it’s far from the majority.
It seems that there’s still that false perception, and the only real way to counter it is genuine, direct guidance for people before they internalize it. We gotta teach our kids both directly by explaining what is and isn’t acceptable, and by living that example. For adults, it’s similar. We gotta be direct about explaining to other men (and even women to women) that it just isn’t okay to treat people like a goal, a piece of meat.
So, yeah, I feel you there. The incel as a social phenomenon has to be countered whenever possible. We just can’t let it fester
You’re right, I didn’t come at this neutrally. I didn’t get that you were talking from the perspective of being a guy, sorry. I respect that you still try to assume good intentions and you’re right that it will probably get you further than assuming the worst about people. I might have been talking about a different point than you, but my view on that is still the same. I just do not think the guy in question had other intentions than to pick up a girl and I do not agree with his conclusion at the end. The whole concept of the incel mentality is just frustrating to me and I have no idea how to handle that. And yes you’re right, that if the guys were a bit more elaborate on why dude was in the wrong they could’ve helped the dude. I mean he probably doesn’t have friends in the first place which makes it even worse to try and talk to people.
Oh, I’m with you there! Women being treated like not only is their presence permission to hit on them, but that they have to accept it or end up the target of abuse is way out of hand.
A lot of it comes from a lack of guidance, imo. Back in my youth, the shit that was in movies and on TV perpetuated the whole persistence model of romance, and young men never got told that it was not realistic. I knew so many boys and young men that genuinely thought they had to be aggressive (as opposed to just presenting themselves) because there was the idea that women want that. And, yeah some people do value aggression and persistence in their idea of romance, but it’s far from the majority.
It seems that there’s still that false perception, and the only real way to counter it is genuine, direct guidance for people before they internalize it. We gotta teach our kids both directly by explaining what is and isn’t acceptable, and by living that example. For adults, it’s similar. We gotta be direct about explaining to other men (and even women to women) that it just isn’t okay to treat people like a goal, a piece of meat.
So, yeah, I feel you there. The incel as a social phenomenon has to be countered whenever possible. We just can’t let it fester