Nope, it was so they could take the 30% cut of every penny that is spent on one of their platforms, and also so that it would be extremely inconvenient to leave their ecosystem since doing so would mean leaving behind most of your data.
It’s both of those things. Just like Sony, Xbox, Nintendo, Steam, etc. They take 30% in exchange for exposure, security, and a reliable platform. It’s a trade off. Worth it to some, not to others.
Of those steam is the only one that doesn’t force you to buy software through them on their own hardware. Obviously they would like you to, but you are free to buy elsewhere.
Are you able to buy a game on an xbox without paying a cut to microsoft? Because you can buy a game on steamdeck without giving valve a cut. Though I suspect the vast majority don’t because valve actually work for their cut given the tools they have made to help games run on the hardware even if the game wasn’t built for it.
I don’t get the argument. It’s not like you are forced to buy iPhones, there a plenty of brands available.
According to recent data iOS is 30% of the market while android is almost 70% (in Europe).
I used android phones for most of my life. I tried to install alternative OS few time but my banking apps all refused to execute. There were always plenty of apps that were forbidden to remove (Facebook, Samsung applications,…). Then 4 years ago I bought an iPhone. No preinstalled shitty news app, Facebook, etc. Was even able to uninstall the default apps that I do not use. I feel to have much more freedom than before. Apple is not perfect by any means but it’s far from being a prison.
From a market regulation view it is more of a prison than Android.
An example is apps have to use WebKit. That’s right Firefox for iOS doesn’t use Gecko and Google Chrome for iOS doesn’t use Chromium. - That’s the walled garden.
They have me as well, because I am connected with my family through various apple only features now. Apple One, apple family share, location sharing with family, mail service, photos in the cloud, and a lot more
My family would rather gift me an iPhone than switching all to FOSS services, hell, even only switching my GF to not iOS is pain.
You can certainly argue that more control makes iPhones safer, since its harder to get malicious software on the phone. But Apple is also abusing their control for their own gain.
You could also argue that locking you in a room would be safer than letting you walk freely out in the world. But I don’t we want that either.
The security approach was what first drew me to Apple back in like 2005. The whole focus on proprietary software that resulted in practically zero malware was definitely worth me having to do file-type conversions on documents and all that crap to keep up with people on Windows. And I loved it. And I kept adding every device and loving how seamless they all interact with each other.
But then there’s that shadow side you refer to. The gradual dumbing down of software, the constant hand-holding. The walled garden began to feel like a lock-in.
My last new Mac purchase was in 2011. I still use that machine. But I was not getting security updates and other things I use were leaving me behind so I decided to give Linux a try. Chose Ubuntu and the hardware was suddenly like new again. Apple makes beautiful machines but waste them on some increasingly basic software. My Linux-run Macs have made me fall in love with computers all over again.
If this somehow results in me being able to run like Graphene on my iPhone in a few years, or even connect my Apple Watch to a non-Apple phone, I will be pretty excited.
Well, but it is just as hard to find exploits for white heads, and this leads to open exploits that last for ages, even if actively used by black heads.
Its primary utility is shoring up their image as the brand where ‘everything just works’ and op/interop is a thoughtless zero friction process. Compromise that and you lose normie, bigtime. So everyone gets locked in…and you get the walled prison basketball court
You’re getting downvoted but how much would you like to bet that once the walled garden is down/third party apps can be installed; we’ll suddenly see “security related apps” installed by some EU law.
If I sound paranoid there’s already an app on Android that scans the content of your photo library (iPhones have this too but it’s only enabled during parental controls, Androids is stealth-enabled 24/7).
Honestly, fuck security. I want every app on my phone to phone home to other malicious app stores with all my personal data. I want them to install backdoor VPNs that tunnel all my data to a man in the middle. I want them to allow me to jailbreak my phone so I can install permanent rootkits, that way adversaries can reload their botnets even after I factory reset my phone.
On the real, i appreciate Apple for what they’ve done so far. If this happens, ill have to move back to GrapheneOS. Which is fine, but its just so much more time that I have to spend on making the phone work versus working on the phone.
We should force the entire EU to mandate GrapheneOS on all phones. Well see how much they enjoy the experience.
I kinda agree with your sentiment. If I’m spending $1000+ on a device, I want to truly own it and do whatever I want with it. Unfortunately people have gotten very used to companies like Apple telling them what they can and can’t do, and Apple artificially restricting things (like giving first-party apps special permissions that third-party apps can’t get) so they make more money. It’s not great that this is so widespread now. At least there’s people like Louis Rossman that still care about these things.
If the manufacturer wants to have an “easy mode” where they limit what can be done, like what Apple does today, that’s totally fine. Just don’t force it onto everyone.
The issue with “easy mode” is that it can be disabled. Scammers can and will find ways to trick grandma into disabling easy mode on her devices and then get her to install malware.
Thats the thing. I buy apple products for that sole reason rather than use a GrapheneOS device.
I want it locked down. I want it immutable. I want it matching every other device so im not fingerprinted. I want it backing up to the cloud with end to end encryption while syncing with all my other devices. I want it to airplay to my TV. I want it to be a webcam for my macbook. I want it to hold some health data while keeping it out of prying eyes. I want iMessage to end to end encrypt my text messages to other iMessage users.
Why bother getting an iOS device if thats not what you’re after? Their products are some of the most secure devices, with the longest support life. I save money by holding an iPhone for 6 years, versus 3 years with an Android phone.
Listen, I LOVE grapheneOS. Its just not a complete ecosystem yet.
I want it locked down. I want it immutable. I want it matching every other device so im not fingerprinted.
That’s totally fine… But it should be optional, so that people who want to take full advantage of their device (instead of being restricted) can do so.
I save money by holding an iPhone for 6 years, versus 3 years with an Android phone
There’s no reason you couldn’t hold an Android phone for just as long. Samsung and Google both offer 7 years of security updates.
What’s the disadvantage of being able to open it up? That’s the part I don’t quite understand. It could be disabled by default and require the user to enable an “expert” or “full featured” mode, or something like that.
I think we’re going to eventually reach a point where the European iPhone is far superior to and more innovative than the American one, just because of the fact that you can do a lot more with it. Apple’s software will have to compete on merit, not just win by default because it’s the only choice available on the device.
I’m actually curious as to if it determines EU vs US based on where you buy the phone, based on country for the account, or based on something else entirely.
As a tinkerer, stuff like Linux and Graphene are right up my alley. But as a dude with a job and family I just don’t have the time anymore. Apple is far from perfect but their security/privacy efforts are the lesser of the evils for almost no extra time/thinking required from me so they’re the ideal option for now. Really hope all these laws don’t muck that up.
I thought that “walled-garden” was for security and privacy in the case of Apple? I always relied on them for that.
Nope, it was so they could take the 30% cut of every penny that is spent on one of their platforms, and also so that it would be extremely inconvenient to leave their ecosystem since doing so would mean leaving behind most of your data.
It’s both of those things. Just like Sony, Xbox, Nintendo, Steam, etc. They take 30% in exchange for exposure, security, and a reliable platform. It’s a trade off. Worth it to some, not to others.
Steam doesn’t belong in that list because you’re free to use whatever game store you want on a PC. No computers are limited to only using Steam.
Not even their own hardware, the steam deck, was in any way closed down. Quite the opposite actually.
And now SteamOS is being used in other platforms, so you can use the software on other hardware vendors if you like
Of those steam is the only one that doesn’t force you to buy software through them on their own hardware. Obviously they would like you to, but you are free to buy elsewhere.
Aren’t all Xbox games on windows now? Either through steam, the Microsoft store, or gamepass?
Are you able to buy a game on an xbox without paying a cut to microsoft? Because you can buy a game on steamdeck without giving valve a cut. Though I suspect the vast majority don’t because valve actually work for their cut given the tools they have made to help games run on the hardware even if the game wasn’t built for it.
You still have the freedom to not use alternative app stores.
I don’t get the argument. It’s not like you are forced to buy iPhones, there a plenty of brands available. According to recent data iOS is 30% of the market while android is almost 70% (in Europe). I used android phones for most of my life. I tried to install alternative OS few time but my banking apps all refused to execute. There were always plenty of apps that were forbidden to remove (Facebook, Samsung applications,…). Then 4 years ago I bought an iPhone. No preinstalled shitty news app, Facebook, etc. Was even able to uninstall the default apps that I do not use. I feel to have much more freedom than before. Apple is not perfect by any means but it’s far from being a prison.
From a market regulation view it is more of a prison than Android.
An example is apps have to use WebKit. That’s right Firefox for iOS doesn’t use Gecko and Google Chrome for iOS doesn’t use Chromium. - That’s the walled garden.
as long as you don’t want to do some crazy unthinkable thing, like, say, getting notifications on your smartwatch that isn’t made by Apple
I’m having trouble conceptualizing the words you just used in my brain.
What other brands are available to use for iOS?
Yea, now try to get away from apple again
They have me as well, because I am connected with my family through various apple only features now. Apple One, apple family share, location sharing with family, mail service, photos in the cloud, and a lot more
My family would rather gift me an iPhone than switching all to FOSS services, hell, even only switching my GF to not iOS is pain.
My Android phone (Realme) allowed me to uninstall most pre-installed bloatware.
Vertical integration is bad, m’kay?
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You can certainly argue that more control makes iPhones safer, since its harder to get malicious software on the phone. But Apple is also abusing their control for their own gain.
You could also argue that locking you in a room would be safer than letting you walk freely out in the world. But I don’t we want that either.
The security approach was what first drew me to Apple back in like 2005. The whole focus on proprietary software that resulted in practically zero malware was definitely worth me having to do file-type conversions on documents and all that crap to keep up with people on Windows. And I loved it. And I kept adding every device and loving how seamless they all interact with each other.
But then there’s that shadow side you refer to. The gradual dumbing down of software, the constant hand-holding. The walled garden began to feel like a lock-in.
My last new Mac purchase was in 2011. I still use that machine. But I was not getting security updates and other things I use were leaving me behind so I decided to give Linux a try. Chose Ubuntu and the hardware was suddenly like new again. Apple makes beautiful machines but waste them on some increasingly basic software. My Linux-run Macs have made me fall in love with computers all over again.
If this somehow results in me being able to run like Graphene on my iPhone in a few years, or even connect my Apple Watch to a non-Apple phone, I will be pretty excited.
I dunno, are meals provided in the locked room? The world is a pretty fucking awful place right now.
Yes but only oatmeal (no toppings).
Oh goddamnit
Well, but it is just as hard to find exploits for white heads, and this leads to open exploits that last for ages, even if actively used by black heads.
There is no security by obfuscation
If people want a phone that acts like an android, just buy an android.
Why are people trying to make iPhones into androids?
Its primary utility is shoring up their image as the brand where ‘everything just works’ and op/interop is a thoughtless zero friction process. Compromise that and you lose normie, bigtime. So everyone gets locked in…and you get the walled prison basketball court
You’re getting downvoted but how much would you like to bet that once the walled garden is down/third party apps can be installed; we’ll suddenly see “security related apps” installed by some EU law.
If I sound paranoid there’s already an app on Android that scans the content of your photo library (iPhones have this too but it’s only enabled during parental controls, Androids is stealth-enabled 24/7).
It’s called something android core, you can uninstall it, but it may comeback each update.
That’s the lie they tell you, yeah.
Honestly, fuck security. I want every app on my phone to phone home to other malicious app stores with all my personal data. I want them to install backdoor VPNs that tunnel all my data to a man in the middle. I want them to allow me to jailbreak my phone so I can install permanent rootkits, that way adversaries can reload their botnets even after I factory reset my phone.
On the real, i appreciate Apple for what they’ve done so far. If this happens, ill have to move back to GrapheneOS. Which is fine, but its just so much more time that I have to spend on making the phone work versus working on the phone.
We should force the entire EU to mandate GrapheneOS on all phones. Well see how much they enjoy the experience.
I kinda agree with your sentiment. If I’m spending $1000+ on a device, I want to truly own it and do whatever I want with it. Unfortunately people have gotten very used to companies like Apple telling them what they can and can’t do, and Apple artificially restricting things (like giving first-party apps special permissions that third-party apps can’t get) so they make more money. It’s not great that this is so widespread now. At least there’s people like Louis Rossman that still care about these things.
If the manufacturer wants to have an “easy mode” where they limit what can be done, like what Apple does today, that’s totally fine. Just don’t force it onto everyone.
The issue with “easy mode” is that it can be disabled. Scammers can and will find ways to trick grandma into disabling easy mode on her devices and then get her to install malware.
Thats the thing. I buy apple products for that sole reason rather than use a GrapheneOS device.
I want it locked down. I want it immutable. I want it matching every other device so im not fingerprinted. I want it backing up to the cloud with end to end encryption while syncing with all my other devices. I want it to airplay to my TV. I want it to be a webcam for my macbook. I want it to hold some health data while keeping it out of prying eyes. I want iMessage to end to end encrypt my text messages to other iMessage users.
Why bother getting an iOS device if thats not what you’re after? Their products are some of the most secure devices, with the longest support life. I save money by holding an iPhone for 6 years, versus 3 years with an Android phone.
Listen, I LOVE grapheneOS. Its just not a complete ecosystem yet.
That’s totally fine… But it should be optional, so that people who want to take full advantage of their device (instead of being restricted) can do so.
There’s no reason you couldn’t hold an Android phone for just as long. Samsung and Google both offer 7 years of security updates.
We can agree to disagree. I don’t think apple devices should be opened up at all. If you want an opened up device, look for a different manufacturer.
What’s the disadvantage of being able to open it up? That’s the part I don’t quite understand. It could be disabled by default and require the user to enable an “expert” or “full featured” mode, or something like that.
I think we’re going to eventually reach a point where the European iPhone is far superior to and more innovative than the American one, just because of the fact that you can do a lot more with it. Apple’s software will have to compete on merit, not just win by default because it’s the only choice available on the device.
I’m actually curious as to if it determines EU vs US based on where you buy the phone, based on country for the account, or based on something else entirely.
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As a new user of GrapheneOS, I have yet to see the difference with regular Android except that it’s way more secure.
GrapheneOS is how Android should be, but its a solitary experience versus iOS, which harnesses the interplay with other apple devices.
Would grapheneOS work well on a Boox Tab Ultra C?
No. GrapheneOS only supports Google Pixel devices. I do not know if the Boox boot loader can be unlocked to support any custom ROMs.
Graphene doesn’t support any of my banking or MFA apps, at least last time I tried it.
As a tinkerer, stuff like Linux and Graphene are right up my alley. But as a dude with a job and family I just don’t have the time anymore. Apple is far from perfect but their security/privacy efforts are the lesser of the evils for almost no extra time/thinking required from me so they’re the ideal option for now. Really hope all these laws don’t muck that up.