I once accidentally dialed 911 from my steering wheel phone buttons while pulling a turn. Surprised the shit out of me and the dispatcher didn’t sound like this was the first call of the type. This is a fucking terrible idea.
It’s a significantly more efficient way for dealing with high-traffic in a cross-roads situation (though less safe than traffic signs) and pretty much a must if you get 5 or more roads converging and not enough to space to merge a few of those upstream.
However it takes some practice to be comfortable using them, plus they’re most efficient when drivers reliably signal their intention to exit (because it allows people waiting to go in to know earlier that it’s safe to do so).
Good signalling on roundabouts is basic driving skills you learn when getting your license, but for sure not everyone does it properly every time. In the Netherlands there’s roundabouts that work around this by having physical lanes that dispatch the vehicles to the exits, so if you’re trying to get in and see they’re in that exit lane you can go in knowing there’s no way they will stay on.
Well, I’ve lived in The Netherlands and I would say that the extra complexity of the bicycle path (which generally leads to a bicycle roundabout outside the car one) does push for having to help drivers a bit extra in the absence of traffic signs managing the thing (since anybody exiting the roundabout still has to give way to bicycles).
That said, even in my own native Portugal, were maybe 9 out of 10 of all drivers do not properly and reliably use the direction indicators (from personal experience I would say the quality of driving here is one of, if not THE, worst in Europe) roundabouts are all over the place, clearly help and don’t seem to be any more accident prone than regular T and X junctions.
At least in Cities Skylines 1&2, where the player has a good overview of the behavior, they only work for low to medium amount of traffic. If you have one side sending in cars constantly, the others never get an opportunity to enter the roundabout, so there’s a traffic jam spanning through the whole city behind it.
The point is that there will be no way to handle the turn signal through muscle memory. With a traditional control, it is always in the same place in relation to your body. It doesn’t move. When it’s in the steering wheel, it can be in many, many different places. If you have media controls on your steering wheel, try using them during a turn without taking your eyes off the road. Now pretend they are smooth and act like a touch input on a dual shock controller.
There are numerous times you would need to put your turn signal on when the steering wheel isn’t perfectly straight. A three point turn for instance. Exiting a roundabout in some places, a curved residential road. Just because you fail to think of scenarios it applies in, doesn’t mean it doesn’t apply.
That’s not the issue, imagining driving through a roundabout that curves left and having to find a button somewhere on the steering wheel, which is at an angle, in order to indicate right before turning tight in order to exit the roundabout.
A stalk will always be in the same position. The same cannot be said for buttons.
I think you’re right. People in this thread are forgetting that this steering yoke doesn’t have anywhere to put your hands other than right next to the buttons
A driving instructor saying “I couldn’t use this on my first go” isn’t a fatal argument for the control
Sure a stick is probably superior, but I bet you could build muscle memory on a wheel that works like a race car’s
But it’s not a yoke, it’s a steering wheel, which generally turn up to 1 and 1/2 times each way, which with a small radius roundabout (which is a lot of them in Norway) means you’ll have to go hand over hand to turn sharply enough, thus not having your hands on the exact same spots through the turn and thus not able to press the right haptic feedback panel at that time.
In addition to roundabouts, there are plenty of freeway exists that loop around where you can be at an extreme turn and need to initiate a lane change. Or making a right turn into a gas station after a left turn at an intersection… lots of use cases.
You wish but it’s not drive by wire. You steel to turn in multiple times in sharp angles. Of the ratio were to change relative to speed it would make sense but right now it’s just plain dumb.
Not sure about the older teslas, but the cybertruck steering is way more sensitive, so you shouldn’t need to turn it more than 90°.
And the buttons on the wheel are at least normal clicky buttons now, instead of touch sensitive areas. Which is less bad, but still pretty bad.
My old peugeot even has an extra stick behind the wheel for the radio control, and it’s the best UX ever invented.
Very true, although in my experience you’re more likely to encounter someone putting on their blinker mid-turn as someone properly signaling a roundabout exit…
Wtf, seriously? I’ve tried using media buttons on the steering wheel during a turn. It’s not reliable in the slightest, because it’s a moving target.
Does the non circular steering non-wheel never go past 90 degrees or something?
I once accidentally dialed 911 from my steering wheel phone buttons while pulling a turn. Surprised the shit out of me and the dispatcher didn’t sound like this was the first call of the type. This is a fucking terrible idea.
Tbf you are supposed use the signal before turning wheel
Covered in the article. In Norway you are required to signal when exiting a roundabout. It’s a fair concern.
Just in civilized countries, not only Norway.
Some countries don’t have roundabouts
Civilized countries have roundabout
It’s a significantly more efficient way for dealing with high-traffic in a cross-roads situation (though less safe than traffic signs) and pretty much a must if you get 5 or more roads converging and not enough to space to merge a few of those upstream.
However it takes some practice to be comfortable using them, plus they’re most efficient when drivers reliably signal their intention to exit (because it allows people waiting to go in to know earlier that it’s safe to do so).
Good signalling on roundabouts is basic driving skills you learn when getting your license, but for sure not everyone does it properly every time. In the Netherlands there’s roundabouts that work around this by having physical lanes that dispatch the vehicles to the exits, so if you’re trying to get in and see they’re in that exit lane you can go in knowing there’s no way they will stay on.
Well, I’ve lived in The Netherlands and I would say that the extra complexity of the bicycle path (which generally leads to a bicycle roundabout outside the car one) does push for having to help drivers a bit extra in the absence of traffic signs managing the thing (since anybody exiting the roundabout still has to give way to bicycles).
That said, even in my own native Portugal, were maybe 9 out of 10 of all drivers do not properly and reliably use the direction indicators (from personal experience I would say the quality of driving here is one of, if not THE, worst in Europe) roundabouts are all over the place, clearly help and don’t seem to be any more accident prone than regular T and X junctions.
At least in Cities Skylines 1&2, where the player has a good overview of the behavior, they only work for low to medium amount of traffic. If you have one side sending in cars constantly, the others never get an opportunity to enter the roundabout, so there’s a traffic jam spanning through the whole city behind it.
Yeah, that’s a good point.
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If you are going hand-over-hand in a roundabout, you’re doing something very wrong…
The point is that there will be no way to handle the turn signal through muscle memory. With a traditional control, it is always in the same place in relation to your body. It doesn’t move. When it’s in the steering wheel, it can be in many, many different places. If you have media controls on your steering wheel, try using them during a turn without taking your eyes off the road. Now pretend they are smooth and act like a touch input on a dual shock controller.
As is the one on the wheel. Right next to your thumb.
Your thumb stays at the same place on the steering wheel when you’re not driving straight? O.o
Unless I’m making a very sharp turn (in which case my turn signal should already be on), yes, of course it does.
There are numerous times you would need to put your turn signal on when the steering wheel isn’t perfectly straight. A three point turn for instance. Exiting a roundabout in some places, a curved residential road. Just because you fail to think of scenarios it applies in, doesn’t mean it doesn’t apply.
That’s not the issue, imagining driving through a roundabout that curves left and having to find a button somewhere on the steering wheel, which is at an angle, in order to indicate right before turning tight in order to exit the roundabout.
A stalk will always be in the same position. The same cannot be said for buttons.
Your don’t have to “find” anything, it’s right next to your thumb
Drivers frequently change their hand placement as they turn the wheel. You lose precision and basic ability to manipulate the wheel if you don’t.
Quoting yourself won’t magically make you right.
Again, it depends on the angle of the steering wheel. The buttons may be upside down if the car is turning sharply enough.
Again, no it doesn’t. The button should always be in the exact same position, relative to your thumb.
If you’re turning that sharply, you’re not going to need turn signals.
Do you stick your hands to the steering wheel with Krazy glue?
You can’t be serious if you think people don’t take sharp turns from time to time and have to indicate.
I think you’re right. People in this thread are forgetting that this steering yoke doesn’t have anywhere to put your hands other than right next to the buttons
A driving instructor saying “I couldn’t use this on my first go” isn’t a fatal argument for the control
Sure a stick is probably superior, but I bet you could build muscle memory on a wheel that works like a race car’s
But it’s not a yoke, it’s a steering wheel, which generally turn up to 1 and 1/2 times each way, which with a small radius roundabout (which is a lot of them in Norway) means you’ll have to go hand over hand to turn sharply enough, thus not having your hands on the exact same spots through the turn and thus not able to press the right haptic feedback panel at that time.
See https://lemmy.ml/comment/7056795
In addition to roundabouts, there are plenty of freeway exists that loop around where you can be at an extreme turn and need to initiate a lane change. Or making a right turn into a gas station after a left turn at an intersection… lots of use cases.
You wish but it’s not drive by wire. You steel to turn in multiple times in sharp angles. Of the ratio were to change relative to speed it would make sense but right now it’s just plain dumb.
Not sure about the older teslas, but the cybertruck steering is way more sensitive, so you shouldn’t need to turn it more than 90°. And the buttons on the wheel are at least normal clicky buttons now, instead of touch sensitive areas. Which is less bad, but still pretty bad.
My old peugeot even has an extra stick behind the wheel for the radio control, and it’s the best UX ever invented.
What? You’d be hitting the turn signal when you’re going straight. Do you drive a BMW or something?
Turns exist on curved roads too. So do lane changes.
What about exiting a roundabout?
Very true, although in my experience you’re more likely to encounter someone putting on their blinker mid-turn as someone properly signaling a roundabout exit…
Or driving down a twisty road, which where I live is most roads.