DarthYoshiBoy

My kids have child phones on Google Fi which allows me to shut down their Internet with a couple of button presses. Are they simple devices if I geofence their internet access off while they’re in school? I somehow doubt it, but it does meet the definition as you’ve stated it, which in turn means it is as @originalucifer said, not exactly cut and dry.

You or I might, but companies have a constant flow of new middle management who want to make their KPIs this quarter and will shove their own mother in front of an oncoming train to get there. Corporations don’t learn, doubly true for corporations like Apple who have basically captured an audience within their walled garden, the motivation is always all the money now, not some money consistently forever.

Even when you have a company like Samsung with their exploding battery fiasco. Sure they have protections now in place against designing a new product with bad batteries, but give it some time and they’ll do it again when a middle manager (who wasn’t there the first time) ignores the recommendations of their engineers and the company guidelines so they can save $0.001/phone by using a slightly inferior battery design and net that neat bonus for keeping costs down. It will always happen.

I mean, it’s worked for exceptionally well for C. Montgomery Burns, so why not this other cartoon miscreant?

Not for all the money in the world could you convince me to touch him, let alone what you propose.

Good fuck

Just as an FYI, Steam has some granularity for privacy settings, your profile can be private while your friends list is not. Steam defaults profiles to private since 2018 and as I recall I had to go and open mine back up after they made that change in 2018 (I enjoy having SteamDB able to give me some analytics on my account, which it cannot do while things are private, so I took my stuff public.) I believe that they made that change retroactive to some degree else I could have continued using SteamDB without having had to change anything in my profile which worked before the change.

I just sicced SteamHistory on a Steam account that I use for managing some dedicated servers I host, I’ve never futzed with the privacy settings on that account, but it does have a single friend that I set up so one of the server admins could find the account, and SteamHistory is completely unaware of that fact. It shows that the account has 0 friends and I was able to confirm that this is not the case from the perspective of that account.

You (or your friends) can check your privacy settings for Steam at https://steamcommunity.com/my/edit/settings

That said, and you did touch on this OP, nothing on the Internet should be considered private, even in the best cases it’s still data that you don’t have 100% control over and you should assume that it COULD be public at any time because that scenario is always only one data breach away. If you’re not comfortable with your data being known by others, you should not put it on the internet in any form under any circumstances; privacy settings will not save you.

TL;DR: It seems that whatever means SteamHistory is using, they are bound by the limitations of the Steam Privacy settings, so if your stalkers were able to figure out where your account moved via SteamHistory, it’s probably because your friends do not have 100% of their stuff set private or because someone inside your circle of trust is giving the stalkers an inside scoop.

In today’s earnings call, EA CEO Andrew Wilson says he has been playing the next Battlefield game with the development team and it will be a “tremendous live service.”

“a tremendous live service” said Wilson, “…but a fairly terrible gaming experience.” 😁

Honestly, I think he may be right with his statement in so much as he was using Webster’s second definition for tremendous.

The existence of one premier dominant platform is called a fucking monopoly.

Read the first sentence of the Cornell Law Legal Dictionary:

A monopoly is when a single company or entity creates an unreasonable restraint of competition in a market.

Restraint of Competition links to the FTC doc that defines what that is in a page titled “Monopolization defined” and it offers a two pronged test which is exactly what I’ve been saying all this time, they have to be the leader in their market which they have to have “gained or maintained through improper conduct.”

Your lay interpretation informed by feelings that it’s bad we have a market leader (and even there I’m giving you a huge gimmie because Google Play, GOG, EGS, Xbox, UPlay, and Amazon Games all exist and sell PC games in a digital storefront entirely absent Steam, and for stores that aren’t absent Steam, as I noted before even games sold for use on Steam may not net Valve any revenue thanks to the ability of devs to sell their keys directly) is just not the correct interpretation for whether Steam is a monopoly. EA alone made almost as much revenue in 2023 as Valve did, which isn’t an apples to apples comparison since EA does business a lot of places, but they’re just one of a lot of big fish who don’t always put money in Valve’s pockets in the Digital PC Games Distribution market. Many devs sell their games as Steam keys on Amazon, GameStop, Newegg, Best Buy, Walmart, Target, and all the others I linked before and Valve gets nothing (Excepting maybe a freeloading user) from those sales.

Out of curiosity I went to check out my account to see what I had bought “from Valve” vs “not from Valve” on Steam and it turns out that I own 1724 games on Steam. We can break that down in the transaction history, but I’m not going to go line by line to figure out which are DLC and which are games so this next part won’t add up to 1724, but I’m providing the number to give some context for the remaining numbers so it doesn’t just look like most of my transactions are MTX or something silly where Steam is actually getting something. I think it is illuminating to show that I have only made 718 purchases through Steam, I have been gifted 70 games, and I have 209 transactions which were indicated to be “Complimentary” where most seem to be DLC but there are a few games in that mix, so let’s be charitable and give Valve the whole lot those as sales even though they were likely nothing of the sort. I have in my transaction history 1152 transactions that are listed as “Retail” which is Steam’s way of showing that I didn’t get the game or DLC from them. In 16 years of using Steam, Valve has charitably gotten a cut of 997 interactions, while I have given Steam 0% of a transaction 1152 times. That means that Valve has gotten a cut for only 47% of the content that they provide me at the absolutely most charitable interpretation of the data. So far as my account is concerned, if they’re monopolizing the market, they’re doing a terrible job of it by letting everyone else out there take the majority of the money while bearing none of the costs for Steam’s infrastructure and development.

You can dismiss the fact that there is a historical record of Steam often not being the cheapest place to buy a game, or you can claim that just because there is a dominant player we defacto have a monopoly, or any of the other insane claims you’ve made but the fact is that there isn’t a finding of law anywhere stating that Steam is a monopoly and it’s unlikely there ever will be because they just don’t meet the standard defined even if you cut down the market to the slimmest possible framing.

Unfortunately, we have clearly reached an impasse where you refuse to acknowledge statements of fact as written and will just “blah blah blah” away inconvenient facts, so I suppose this is where we part ways. Hopefully the next time we meet will bear better fruit.

the long term ability to raise price or exclude competitors.

Which you seem to take for a granted, but won’t provide even a theoretical for how that might have happened here?

Here, it’s easy:

Then courts ask if that leading position was gained or maintained through improper conduct—that is, something other than merely having a better product, superior management or historic accident.

Does not in fact say:

Then courts ask if that monopoly was gained or maintained through improper conduct—that is, something other than merely having a better product, superior management or historic accident.

The standard has multiple prongs. You might have “monopoly power” without in fact being a monopoly because being a monopoly requires meeting a legal standard where being the in the leading position of a market is not the singular qualifier.

The documents you picked are telling you, being a monopoly and doing harm are separate questions. The ability comes first, and that ability comes directly from market dominance.

This is not at all what those documents say, they state unequivocally that a monopoly has to create unfair conditions for competition AND they have to be dominant in their market. A company that creates unfair conditions for competition in their market is not a monopoly, a company that is dominant in their market is not a monopoly, it is both conditions combined that make a monopoly.

When Steam excludes a game, for any reason, that game usually sells a lot less.

Yeah, you’re right, it was unfair of Steam to exclude Alan Wake 2 and cause them to lose all those sales. ಠ_ಠ

for most sales, the price on Steam is the price.

The entirety of the isthereanydeal.com website and their history for almost every game in the database proves that this is false, are we not going to require facts in this discussion any longer?

‘Poor sales are your own fault for not selling through the one store that matters,’

YES!!! FUCKING YES! If you choose to exclude the premier dominant platform that your product might appeal to, that is YOUR FAULT! Nobody owes you sales when you choose to do dumb things.

By your logic

Nothing sensible ever follows these words.

In your case you couldn’t be more correct. Touché sir.

Pointing out which meaning applies is how definitions work. One is enough.

So which is it? Because the only one that might apply is the last and that one has a complicated legal meaning that is multiple parts of which you only seem to care about a single part: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/monopoly

I was going to get to this but my last comment ran over the 5000 character limit and had to be trimmed back. I was just going to drop it, but on reflection it is important to drive the distinction home, so here it is:

It is a dead simple fact that Steam’s market share is real fuckin’ high. So high that everyone else barely counts. We have a word for that.

We have a word for that.

Yeah. We do. That word is dominance. It is not monopoly because monopoly has qualifiers beyond dominance.

First things first, you cherry picked the one thing from my link that supports your position intentionally ignoring that it is a single prong in a standard that has several. Second, I’m glad you brought the FTC link, because they also do not agree with your stance if you bring the whole context from your own link into the conversation:

As a first step, courts ask if the firm has “monopoly power” in any market. This requires in-depth study of the products sold by the leading firm, and any alternative products consumers may turn to if the firm attempted to raise prices. Then courts ask if that leading position was gained or maintained through improper conduct—that is, something other than merely having a better product, superior management or historic accident. Here courts evaluate the anticompetitive effects of the conduct and its procompetitive justifications.

Your definition only meets one portion of the FTC standard, which is why my comment addressed how Valve fails to meet any of the points of the standard beyond the dominant market position. YES STEAM IS MARKET DOMINANT, BUT NO THEY ARE NOT A MONOPOLY BECAUSE THEY DON’T MEET ANY OTHER PORTION OF THE STANDARD.

But Valve obviously has power.

To do what? PC is an open platform that they don’t control.

Valve has the ability to do these things.

To make people raise prices or exclude competitors? Again, how or where?

Their competitors don’t.

Epic is LITERALLY excluding competitors right now for a bunch of titles, other competitors have done likewise until they recognized that customers didn’t like it and decided that it wasn’t in their best interest to do so.

Steam’s market share is so high, they could do whatever they want, whether or not they ever do.

Not to beat a dead horse, but how? They literally have no control over PC users beyond that which they’ve earned from being the best of MANY options, so how could they possibly parlay that into a power they could use to exert force over consumers or developers? Unless they did something that made them into not the best option, they have competition from every angle including from their direct competitors at Microsoft whose platform (as of March 2024) houses 96.67% of their customers with Windows being the dominant OS for Steam users by an absurd amount. There’s incredible danger for Steam to try and pull anything anti-competitive because they literally live in the house that their competition built.

We are talking about a long-awaited critical darling of a game, and we are talking about how its sales blow, specifically because it’s not on Steam. Yes, it has sales, but it doesn’t have enough sales, unless it goes through this one store. Defending the store’s practices will not change that. Defending the conditions that led here will not change that.

You seem to imply that Steam being a monopoly has caused Remedy to suffer poor sales. However, we have the following problems there:

A) Steam fails to meet the legal definition of a monopoly. Just full stop. You attempt to take singular statements from a legal concept that by design has multiple prongs (specifically because we do not choose to harm companies who do no competitive wrong and come to their dominant position through the art of their craft being superior), but that’s just willfully misunderstanding the concept of a monopoly.

and

B) A developer choosing to launch their game on the Evercade Vs and failing to see the sorts of sales numbers they might expect on Sony Playstation/Microsoft Xbox/Nintendo Switch is hardly a justification to claim that the game did poorly because Sony/Microsoft/Nintendo are a oligopoly. The dev CHOSE to launch on a shittier platform, one that doesn’t offer all the things that the current market expects. The devs are going to see lesser sales as a result, that’s just how it works, they weren’t harmed by a monopoly effect, they were harmed by their poor market choices.

It is a dead simple fact that Steam’s market share is real fuckin’ high. So high that everyone else barely counts. We have a word for that.

See, I think your problem may be that you think market share aside, all other things are equal, which is simply not the case. By your logic I should be able to offer you a nice shiny and new Evercade Vs in exchange for your Playstation 5 because it’s only the market share that makes it so that the Evercade has less games to play? It’s only natural where Steam is bringing more to the table, it has more customers as a result. EGS offers a pale shadow of what a consumer gets from Steam, so why should they count as much? Who owes them that? They need to get on that level if they want that credit due. They currently matter about as much as the effort they’re putting into competing, which I’ll agree isn’t much, but is hardly relevant here.

Except, legally in the US where Valve is based, you’ve got 0 legs to stand on.

Valve does dominate the market they’re in, but they do so without creating an unreasonable restraint of competition in that market. They are dominant by providing the best product, not because they have unfair business practices which burden the competition. Like I said, Valve will literally allow game makers to go and take 100% of every sale they make (assuming they can process payments for free) while still allowing them to use the platform Valve have built and pay to maintain so long as they’ll pay Valve a cut for the copies that are sold directly through the Steam store. Valve allows their competition to sell games that package said competition’s stores inside of those games. Every EA or Ubisoft game comes with the competitor’s store bundled in. They create tools that allow their competitors games to run on platforms that the competition doesn’t want to bother with and they give them away. HOW IS ANY OF THAT AN UNREASONABLE RESTRAINT ON COMPETITION?

“Here you go guys, you so obviously don’t understand what the audience wants. How about you give us a cut of the sales you make on your games via our platform and we’ll let you install your platform on our customer’s PCs? How unreasonable and diabolical of us to cut down the competition by letting gamers see what an open sewage pipe of fetid scum they’d be dealing with in our absence. BWAH HA HAH HAH! We have constrained the competition by our cunning craft of having a better product. Truly we are monsters from HELL! HAIL GABEN!” -Valve, The monopolists 🙄

Steam is the antithesis of anticompetitive, they’re not the single seller of any good beyond “Valve Games” of which there are now 22(?) among millions of PC games, and they don’t generally dictate prices in the market; which is the succinct way of saying that they don’t live up to any portion of the legal standard for what constitutes a monopoly. Give me something factual that implicates Valve as a monopoly or get out of here with this nonsense.

Except Valve allows people to sell their own keys without Valve taking a cut. That system is why at least half the vendors here can exist at all. The dev/publisher cuts a bunch of their own Steam keys and dumps them off with these shops who take less than the 30% cut that Valve takes from sales within Steam and the dev/publisher gets to keep the difference or pass that on to the customer as a discount. Steam just isn’t a monopoly. They allow sellers to use everything that their platform offers for nothing more than a percentage of what is made exclusively from sales within the platform. A seller can sell their game through their own website and take home 100% (less whatever their payment processor charges, usually a single digit percent) of the sale, while still using everything that Steamworks and Steam in general is bringing to the table and all without any lock-in or requirements that they stick with Steam. All of that is a HUGE strike against considering Steam a monopoly, but that’s not even everything.

So far as “the competition does not matter” that’s largely because the competition (Primarily talking EGS here, but it’s apropos UPlay and Origin too) hasn’t done anything to make for a better value proposition other than paying for store exclusives and giving developers a rightfully higher cut of sales for a shot at a much smaller portion of the PC market. If Epic offered answers to Proton, Steam Link, communities, workshop, meta-games in the store, quick UI, marketplace, etc… It might make for a real challenge to Steam, but as it stands now there’s nothing in EGS that puts up anything approaching half of what you get for the same games in Steam. I’ve never bought anything in EGS, but trying to use their app with any of the free games that they’ve given me has immediately turned me right around and sent me back to Steam while it takes literal minutes for the app to get me signed back in and going (and often has to spend time updating a game once it does) while Steam was good to go 2 seconds after boot, never needs me to reauth once I’ve signed into a system, and keeps my games updated silently without my having to notice or worry.

Now GOG on the other hand, where I have spent a decent amount of money and own a good number of games has managed to make a proposition of giving me a barebones store that gives me barebones downloads of games that don’t need updates, or a launcher, without any DRM so I can just download an EXE and get my games. They matter, they’re bringing something to the table that nobody else does and I love them for that. I go out of my way to buy games on GOG when they’re the sort of things that don’t need any of the stuff that Steam is providing.

If any of the other publisher owned storefronts tried to do anything half as ambitious as GOG or Steam, they’d probably matter, but the fact is that they won’t because they don’t think like Valve or GOG, they think like MBA shitlords who’s single trick is extracting rents for properties made by smarter people, often back in the days before those MBAs knew their multiplication tables. The same school of idiots who saw how Netflix had a really good thing going and thought that they could have the good thing themselves so now we have a worse situation than we had before Netflix destroyed the cable industry and we get all of these platforms that don’t work as well as Netflix did/does where you have to go to 30 different shitty places to get what you used to find in one really good place. A whole lot of idiots who paid a lot of money to learn in fancy schools that you can personally get rich by convincing a company to kill the golden goose, so long as you immediately proceed to get out of town so it’s the next guy’s problem to solve before anyone notices that the golden eggs aren’t rolling in anymore. It’s incomprehensible to me that people are going to bat for those muppets when all they ever do is make things worse so they can line their 401k with another million.

The best that the SMS protocol can tell you is whether the message was delivered and even that isn’t a requirement. SMS has delivery receipts, it does not have read receipts.

I don’t have a problem with people who are okay with it getting it.

My apologies if I implied that you did, that was not my intent.

But they aren’t really an alternative to, say, YouTube. […] I just would prefer to pay for them with money rather than with data.

Sorry, that was my point though, without the tracking, you’re not getting YouTube, or most of Google’s services as we know them. The Google secret sauce is that they know enough about their users to curate an experience per user. That’s largely why competitors to Google services rarely take off, the competitors lack enough individual user knowledge to make an experience that is better than what Google can offer for most users.

The services more or less are what they are because of the breadth of what and how Google knows to shape the experience for an individual, and that’s why Workspace accounts still track what they do. Google would be providing their paying customers with a lesser experience if they genericized everything you’re interacting with in those content related services due to a lack of learned data and behaviors per user. Which is probably not what the average user wants if I had to guess?

Heck, even paid YouTube Premium still needs your tracking data or it’s just going to show you whatever popular rage bait is trending day to day with the general public? Or maybe just an unfiltered firehose of all the hours of nonsense that is uploaded every minute to the platform? I guess you could treat it as a whitebox video hosting site, but where does the money come from if YouTube can’t make guarantees to advertisers that their ads will be seen by people who might care about the ad, and how do the content creators make money if YouTube can’t get advertisers on board, and who is making interesting content if they have to pay to host it themselves because advertisers aren’t paying that cost for them? I think my point is that if you pull the tracking and user knowledge out of the Jenga tower, the whole thing just crashes down.

I actually consider the tracking of my browsing/watching history to be integral to the search experience. It’s why when I search for Python, I get results about the programming language and not snakes both in Search and YouTube. Or why Commodore gets me the computer and not naval crap. Or any number of other things that steer their search results towards things in my interests and away from junk I don’t care about.

An ad blocker in my browser keeps anything else they’re targeting at me through their scraping out of my hair while also blocking a load of what they might learn about me from third party sites, so I’m not terribly bothered what they think they know about me, they’re not getting access to the bulk of the stuff I’d consider personal, and the junk they do track is kept so that they can get me results that will matter to me instead of generic crap.

I think there’s a general misunderstanding that Google tracks stuff so that they can sell it, when the reality is that they keep it so they know where to target ads (that I never see) and so that they can provide results relevant to my interests so I’ll keep coming back to (not) see ads. They don’t sell the info they collect, they sell people the ability to run ads against that info. If they were selling the info itself, they’d be killing the golden goose. So long as they’re contractually not allowed to look at my mail and files, I’m good with the rest of what they take because it 100% goes into making a better experience for me using their services so long as I’m running Firefox/uBlock.

That said, if you don’t want tracking being used to improve your search experience, a Workspace account indeed won’t get you 100% away from it. I tried using DDG for a while and I just couldn’t hang with it. Its lacking the little dossier that Google has on me made it so that I constantly had to work harder to find what I wanted vs a quick search on Google, and that’s what you’d get without the tracking and info collection. It wasn’t worth the tradeoff for me, maybe it is for you though?

if I could pay a privacy fee to Alphabet and not be logged and data-mined, I’d do that.

It’s called Google Workspace and it’s decently nice. You can get a basic business starter account for something like ~$7 per month/per user + whatever you want to pay to register a domain each year. Takes a little bit of know how and you need to do some lifting for yourself that Google would otherwise shoulder for you, but it’s pretty nice and has more benefits beyond just the privacy implications, like 30GB of account storage and Google Meet conferencing for up to 100 people without time limits. On the downside, some stuff that needs to track your usage to function properly (Like YouTube video recommendations) just do not work with a Workspace account because they don’t track your preferences so they don’t have a way to build a recommendation profile for you.

I’ve been doing it for years now and I appreciate it a lot. In the rare instances when I need to go do something on my old Gmail account it’s shocking every time how bad the unpaid versions of Google products have gotten.