I thought the Gaza death toll was the intent?
These things appear to be going as zionists intended and the state department is wilfully ignoring.
I’m surprised this doesn’t get mentioned more, but Antony Blinken is a Jewish Zionist. That doesn’t seem like a good mediator here. He also has spent his whole career assisting in this kind of mass cruelty abroad. He worked under the Clinton and Bush whitehouses on national security. He was a staff member for the Senate foreign relations committee and advocated for the war in Iraq, which Biden then supported as the chair of that committee. Then he worked on the national security council under Obama and advocated for Obama’s disastrous intervention in Libya.
Also, I really feel like it’s weird that this doesn’t get more attention, so I’m going to repeat it: he’s a lifelong Zionist Jew. I know that phrase feels gross, but that’s literally his own self perception. It kind of feels like he’s a blood-soaked American imperialist who always cheerleads violence and could conceivably be characterized as basically a dual national with Israeli loyalties. He shouldn’t be secretary of state, let alone involved in this issue.
If, by “Zionist Jew”, you mean that he is a Jew that thinks that Israel has some right to exist in some fashion - which is what Zionist actually means - you are describing the vast majority of all Jews, and by extension arguing that no Jew should be allowed to be involved in this discussion.
Maybe I’m wrong, but I have a strange idea that you wouldn’t similarly support barring any Muslim from being involved in the talks.
That’s not a useful or accurate description of modern Zionism that is used by Zionists or antizionist Jews. If it were, it would leave room for a two-state solution, for instance. But the leadership of the modern Zionist movement and the Israeli government has been working aggressively since the Oslo accords to prevent the formation of any Palestinian state and also to ethnically cleanse Israel of its Israeli Palestinian population (I’m talking here about Palestinians with Israeli citizenship, who for years have been second class citizens and faced threats of mass expulsion from their own elected leaders).
The Zionist movement largely has two camps, and if we include the Jewish antizonist movement, we have a general third:
Liberal Zionists - Those who support a welcoming homeland for Jews which is democratic, and of negotiable boundaries.
Religious Zionists - Those who believe unwavering in a god-given right to the full territory between the River Jordon and the Mediterranean Sea, and that their right justifies the removal of non Jews by any means.
Antizionist Jews - Those who believe that current inhabitants, the displaced former residents, and the children of both have a legal and moral right to remain and/or return to their family lands and live with full rights alongside those who’ve immigrated in the last century and the children of these immigrants.
Blinken is, as far as I’m aware, a liberal Zionist. The problem is that liberal Zionists have ceded Israeli policy fully to religious Zionists, and have been trying for at least a decade to somehow insist on using their own vision of Zionism as the framework for debate when critics challenge the obvious theocratic and genocidal impulses of religious Zionism as articulated plainly by the leaders of the movement, Itamar Ben Gvir (head of the police and prisons) and Bezalel Smotrich (finance minister). Netanyahu says nothing, but as he refuses to even lie and pretend to support a Palestinian state, his actions and tactical silence have shown him to be a religious Zionist in all ways that matter.
Also, I wouldn’t immediately disqualify a Muslim for the role any more than I’d disqualify a politically neutral Jew. But I would certainly object to an outspoken Muslim advocate of Palestinian Liberation in the role for the same reason I’d say that Blinken is not qualified to be a neutral and faithful representative of the US. The issue isn’t the circumstances of his birth: it’s his lifelong political involvement in the nationalist movement of one side.
I was raised singing the Hatikva (the Israeli anthem) every morning in school alongside the Star Spangled Banner, btw. I’m coming at this with plenty of first-hand knowledge.
Removed by mod
That’s just the usual lemmy gaslighting. It’s always been about stomping out Hamas.
Well they see everyone in Gaza as Hamas/animals so they haven’t killed a single civilian in their mind.
Not according to them.
You mean when Bibi said that Gaza shouldn’t exist and that Palestinian culture shouldn’t exist.
Bibi Netanyahu saying “You must remember what Amalek has done to you, says our Holy Bible. 1 Samuel 15:3 ‘Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass’," .
Defense Minister Yoav Gallant called residents of Gaza, about half of whom are children, “human animals” as he ordered a “complete siege” on the enclave including a total blockade of food, fuel, and electricity.
Former military officer Eliyahu Yossian said the IDF must enter Gaza “with the aim of revenge, zero morality, maximum corpses,” and told Channel 14 in Israel that “there is no population in Gaza, there are 2.5 million terrorists.”
Earlier this year, Israeli Finance Minister Bezalel Smotrich said at an event in Paris, “There’s no such thing as Palestinians because there’s no such thing as a Palestinian people.” He also said the West Bank town of Huwara should be “wiped out” by “the state of Israel,” while Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu presented a map of what he called “The New Middle East”—without the illegally occupied West Bank, Gaza, or East Jerusalem—at the United Nations General Assembly just weeks before the onslaught in Gaza began.
Fuck you for only looking at one side and being blind to the genocide you are defending.
Genocide where population triples within a decade or more LOL.
Do I really need to explain why this is particular talking point is so mind numbingly moronic?
Removed by mod
Ok so that we can work from the same set of data where did you get the information for your claim? I do data analysis so I’d love to run it. I might even make some pretty graphs.
Removed by mod
Everyone world wide has a huge problem with the death toll, except for pro-Israelis. That irks me.
This whole thing is a perfect example of how conspiracy theories get a foothold. We are seeing celebrity cancellations because of disagreement with Israel and people clearly asking for change from their leadership who refuse. Yet the apartheid state remains enabled and the genocide supported.
It’s pure balls
Israel of course boldly claims that 7k of those 18k dead are terrorists. Somehow in their minds the death of the 11k others doesn’t mean shit. No evidence beyond “trust me bro”.
Also, dont forget, they have been caught a few times now rounding up civilians, shaming/torturing them as terrorists, claiming they are terrorists, then it turns out they were just normal civilians rounded up like cattle.
Yep and just a few days ago the Israeli army has arbitrarily detained dozens of women and girls from Gaza without disclosing their whereabouts or the charges they face, Palestinian groups and families have said.. Yes, that also includes some of the women’s infants. Infants are in Israeli prisons.
If you have a problem with the death toll then you must be a Hamas supporter! Come on don’t be so anti-Semitic! Hey, that’s a nice job you’ve got there, would be a shame if you were to lose it.
/s
…by sending them more weapons and ammo and asking them to be nice.
Depends on how you view “closing the gap”
This is USA to Israel: Hey now… come on now…ooh. we tried.
Reminds me of Democrat primary debate where right before (or after… was a while ago, dont remember which) TARP was released to pump hundreds of billions of dollars straight into CEO’s pockets because it was going to “trickle down” and fix the economy (the actual issue was the sub prime mortgage trade in wall street), Hilary was quoted as saying “I was the Senator for New York when all that went down, and I personally went to Wall Street and told them ‘Hey! Stop it!’” They, in fact, did not stop it.
Removed by mod
It’s a tough time to be the Biden administration, they’re trying to support our allies and retain international credibility while dealing with significant numbers of angry voters who are trying to bind Israel’s hands before they can achieve meaningful military objectives to keep themselves safe. This will end when Hamas is deposed and the threat of future attacks is mitigated, which could happen immediately if they were so inclined:
“There’s a gap between the intent and the results, and that’s the gap that we’re trying to make sure is closed,” Blinken said. “Look, this could be over tomorrow. This could be over tomorrow. If Hamas got out of the way of civilians instead of hiding behind them, if it put down its weapons, if it surrendered.”
The “entire world” should put pressure on Hamas “to do just that,” Blinken said. “That would stop this tomorrow. But in the absence of that, Israel has to take steps not only to defend itself against the ongoing attacks from Hamas, but against Hamas’s stated intent to repeat Oct. 7 again and again if given the opportunity.”I totally agree with him. It’s sad when I see more people on the left angry at Israel for responding to being attacked than at Hamas for instigating, hiding among civilians, and prolonging the conflict, causing this terrible yet predictable situation.
You think it’s sad you see more people concerned by genocide over terrorism?
Hamas is for genocide, they just don’t have the means. Israel claims they are not. Causing heavy collateral damage is not genocide.
@DarkGamer @naturalgasbad @Marsupial Yeah that’s delusional, Israel is committing genocide and has been slow walking one ( ethnic cleansing) for decades
Israeli propaganda isn’t fooling anyone anymore
So you think they are okay with genocide, despite their history, but just not very good at it? 🙄
They could have just fire bombed Gaza like Dresden, but instead they built a sophisticated AI to generate legal military targets, and until recently would warn people of strikes ahead of time so they could leave.
Gazans have nowhere left to go. The state of Israel are the most incompetent military operators of all time.
They could have just fire bombed Gaza like Dresden, but instead they built a sophisticated AI to generate legal military targets,
As someone who works with AI on a professional level (data scientist/ML engineer) I want to say from all my heart: fuck your stupidity.
Oh yeah the AI surely explains why 30+ members of the same family die a single bombing and why Israel has wiped entire families from existence.
You are such a sad genocide denier. You ARE just as bad as holocaust deniers, maybe even worse since you are denying a genocide now underway, a genocide we can stop.
Hey look you did the thing I just was mentioning…
I noticed the zionists seem to like saying that gaza isn’t being carpet bombed and such so how do you explain :
“Dresden, Hamburg, Cologne — some of the world’s heaviest-ever bombings are remembered by their place names,” said Robert Pape, a US military historian and author of Bombing to Win, a landmark survey of 20th century bombing campaigns. “Gaza will also go down as a place name denoting one of history’s heaviest conventional bombing campaigns.” from the financial times (non paywalled no excuses link https://archive.ph/DSZ1b/ )
They even have pretty graphs showing how it is worse.
Oh and since you seem to think TIME is an issue for me tell me how fast was the WW2 bombing vs everything since Oct 7??
Nevermind I’ll just tell you since your propaganda addled brain (yea that’s an insult you nazi wannabe) will try to block it out. “By contrast, over the space of two years, between 1943 and 1945, the Allied bombing of 61 major German cities razed an estimated 50 per cent of their urban areas, according to Pape.”
Odd how these things seem bad even in the light of history, maybe Israel can get all the way to # 1 on the charts!!!
I noticed the guy/girl you are responding to almost never write back when presented with evidence. Just making sweeping statements and fucking off.
Yup he’s a coward.
I noticed that the only posts you make on lemmy are related to the Israel/Palestine conflict. Just making emotional outbursts and asking rhetorical questions which can’t be countered logically when confronted and fucking off.
I’d bet good money you’re not the only bot here too. Too bad I actually have a life/ a job to get to. Would’ve been interesting seeing how infested lemmy is.
@DarkGamer @naturalgasbad @Marsupial DarkGamer, how naive are you??
https://www.instagram.com/reel/C0tSl5dKB7D/?igshid=YzZhZTZiNWI3Nw==
How does your clip reveal naevity?
This does not appear to be a valid military target and I hope those responsible are punished. Are you suggesting this one person getting shot and killed is genocide, not an unsanctioned killing by soldiers at war?
@DarkGamer @naturalgasbad @Marsupial I’m saying that one video you’re watching, is an example of many other atrocities that have been documented in other places
And those who perpetuated the action will go unpunished by Israel which is condoning those actions. About 17,000 times so far, in a myriad of manners
Do you deny Israel’s genocide against Palestinians?
The current ratio for collateral “damage”, as you called it, is 2-1. Are they missing and shooting terrorists by mistake?
They are attacking Hamas targets hiding among civilians, using them as human shields.
Well, thats to be expected. They are, in fact, terrorists. Whats not expected is the lack of regard for human life from the idf.
If you think a state should have the same standards as a terrorist group, i dont know what to tell you
If you think they should send troops into a well prepared guerilla terrorist den without air support and incur heavy losses, encouraging increased use of human shields in the future, and making Israel less safe in order to save civilians from a belligerent nation who are likely to be hostile themselves, I don’t know what to tell you.
Fundamentally Israel has to choose between the lives of it’s own soldiers and civilians in a hostile territory, their decision should be unsurprising.
Dude, they are bombing hospitals, ambulances, refugee camps, UN offices, UN schools, starving people, etc. I dont know what to tell you.
Lets hope you never find yourself in the same neighbourhood as a hostage taker or idf may as well bomb it.
I’m honestly not sure we can truly say that Hamas ‘instigated’ this situation in good faith, as this is merely the most recent flare-up in a long history of atrocities that goes both ways. That doesn’t excuse what Hamas has done either, but I also wouldn’t consider shelling civilian buildings to be a particularly defensive action.
People aren’t trying to ‘bind Israel’s hands before they can achieve meaningful military objectives’ they’re trying to bind Israel’s hands before they can commit more atrocities. These atrocities are being actively supported by US taxpayer dollars, and the sentiment among voters (at least the ones I know) is that US support means that we have blood on our hands by association. That’s not something I’m willing to support, and voters shouldn’t feel bad for not supporting it either.
Nothing about this mass casualty event should be considered a foregone conclusion. All we can do is try and stop this cycle of violence from being perpetuated.
Causing, “the most recent flare-up,” is instigating as it regards to this specific conflict.
I also wouldn’t consider shelling civilian buildings to be a particularly defensive action.
IDF claims they level buildings used by Hamas, however there are anonymous accounts that say that can mean any connection no matter how slight will suffice; a Hamas member living in their family apartment might lead to the entire building being leveled. This might make it technically a legal military target, but there’s legitimate criticism to be made of such strategies. I suspect Israel is hitting Gaza hard while they still can to create a buffer zone and/or to discourage future attacks.
People aren’t trying to ‘bind Israel’s hands before they can achieve meaningful military objectives’ they’re trying to bind Israel’s hands before they can commit more atrocities.
This invasion and all the destruction will have all been for naught if they do not take out Hamas before they leave, or at very least change the situation in a way that denies intifada groups the ability to launch future attacks. If they blow up infrastructure and leave them in charge, it’s a half-measure, and just a matter of time before the next attack. It would be Pyrrhic victory for Hamas.
the sentiment among voters (at least the ones I know) is that US support means that we have blood on our hands by association. That’s not something I’m willing to support, and voters shouldn’t feel bad for not supporting it either.
Yes, sadly I believe the electorate just sees asymmetrical warfare and assumes the underdog is worth cheering for without understanding the context.
a Hamas member living in their family apartment might lead to the entire building being leveled.
Oh I see, so you’re okay with the whole family dying. Now I understand what a sick fuck you are.
Let’s sya your cousin works for the Hamas government… Because he has a governmental job, so they bomb the home you are sheltering and starving in and you, your niece, your mother, your father, your grandfather, and all your children die. Is this acceptable?
I already know the answer: Yes. To you, it must be acceptable.
My fear is that this sort of warfare is just going to keep this conflict going for another 70 years.
It’s a tough time to be the Biden administration, they’re trying to support our allies and retain international credibility while dealing with significant numbers of angry voters who are trying to bind Israel’s hands before they can achieve meaningful military objectives to keep themselves safe.
Your allies are child murderers.
