- cross-posted to:
- world@lemmy.world
- cross-posted to:
- world@lemmy.world
Israeli officials say that everywhere Hamas terrorists struck — the rave, the military bases along the Gaza border and the kibbutzim — they brutalized women.
A two-month investigation by The Times uncovered painful new details, establishing that the attacks against women were not isolated events but part of a broader pattern of gender-based violence on Oct. 7.
Relying on video footage, photographs, GPS data from mobile phones and interviews with more than 150 people, including witnesses, medical personnel, soldiers and rape counselors, The Times identified at least seven locations where Israeli women and girls appear to have been sexually assaulted or mutilated.
Four witnesses described in graphic detail seeing women raped and killed at two different places along Route 232, the same highway where Ms. Abdush’s half-naked body was found sprawled on the road at a third location.
And The Times interviewed several soldiers and volunteer medics who together described finding more than 30 bodies of women and girls in and around the rave site and in two kibbutzim in a similar state as Ms. Abdush’s — legs spread, clothes torn off, signs of abuse in their genital areas.
Many of the accounts are difficult to bear, and the visual evidence is disturbing to see.
The Times viewed photographs of one woman’s corpse that emergency responders discovered in the rubble of a besieged kibbutz with dozens of nails driven into her thighs and groin.
The Times also viewed a video, provided by the Israeli military, showing two dead Israeli soldiers at a base near Gaza who appeared to have been shot directly in their vaginas.
Don’t believe everything that makes “your side” look good and don’t doubt everything that makes it look bad, or makes your opponents look good. Apply the same standard of scrutiny.
Because everyone believes they are the hero of their tale. The Trump insurrectionists on Jan 6 in the US legitimately believed they were fighting to preserve the country. They thought they were doing a moral good, and refused to listen to anyone saying differently. Not everyone who enables and supports a fascist is aware they’re helping a fascist. They may do so unwittingly.
Always question yourself. And I am very aware this applies to my beliefs as well. I regularly question them to make sure I’m looking at the whole picture.
Don’t blindly support Hamas. They’re cruel to the Palestinians as well. They hoard supplies. They don’t hold elections and they’ve violently suppressed protest.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/mar/21/hamas-violently-suppresses-gaza-economic-israeli-border-protests
Don’t enable oppressors who are fighting other oppressors. Both parties in a fight can be detestable bastards, and they can also be captors of the people they claim to represent. Blindly support one, and you hurt the people you want to help.
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Fair enough. I never said those were in contention, and I mostly agree. What I disagree with is saying Hamas didn’t do so much bad, although it’s worth my asking if you mean that overall or just this. If it’s just this, then I apologize and it seems we talked past each other.
Hamas certainly killed innocent people, and also kidnapped innocent people and held them hostage. I took issue with you suggesting this didn’t happen, when it very obviously did.
I appreciate that you’re patiently explaining this as a misunderstanding instead of branding me as an enemy. I think all of us agree that what’s going on is horrible and needs to stop. There’s no good answers and we’re frustrated which causes us to lash out at people who agree with us but have a different answer. For my part in that, I apologize. This is a very easy topic to get heated about and I fall for it too often and assume the worst.
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They still very clearly killed some people and kidnapped others though. I agree the more sensational headlines seem unlikely and just IDF propaganda. The IDF has far more blood on its hands.
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The way I see it is that the struggle was justified, but the violence on bystanders was not, if that makes sense. I can understand why it happened. But the mentality behind it is why the senseless violence continues.
The poorly trained teens and rogues wanted vengeance. They attacked and kidnapped Israelis out of anger for the Israeli army killing their families. That results in Israelis losing family members, and subsequently wanting vengeance on Hamas. They vote for Netanyahu to keep bombing Palestinians as retribution. Blaming the entire group for the actions of individuals is how this mess just keeps going.
Because of the power dynamics, it doesn’t really matter if Palestinians forgive the IDF. The IDF will continue. The imbalance in power requires Israelis to move towards a peaceful solution even when they may want vengeance.
Regarding the official orders, we know that kidnapping civilians was likely part of their plan. With the number abducted, I doubt it’s just rogue elements. That’s still evil orders. I agree there’s a big difference from purposely bombing hospitals and refugee camps, but it’s still evil.
I believe leadership expressed this was the outcome they wanted, in terms of creating active conflict. They wanted active warfare to reignite and bring attention to them. I don’t disagree with their ends, but I can’t agree with their means. What Israel is doing is pure evil, and it’s exactly what Hamas expected them to do. The purpose of the attack war to draw out a pure evil response by Israel towards the Palestinians.
What’s the morality of that? Purposely throwing civilians in the way of a known violent entity? Hamas is a group independent of Palestine. It may have Palestinians in its ranks who want revenge, but it isn’t a Palestinian liberation front. The wellbeing of Palestinians is not their primary goal.
Bringing attention to their plight is worthwhile, but not by setting them up for slaughter.
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Was South Africa "removed’ though? Or was it a new regime that made a lot of changes? I believe a far left government would work just as well to fix the issue. Plus it’s easier to advocate for a non genocidal government than it is for removal.
Unfortunately I took don’t think there’s the numbers for that. You’d need an installed government in this case.
Maybe it would be possible to change minds if Hamas fought an information war instead, so people would be completely aware of what their army was doing. That’s what got the US out of Vietnam, when everyday people saw what was happening.
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