• cbarrick@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    6
    arrow-down
    2
    ·
    8 months ago

    While the tone of the comment is dismissive, they have a point.

    It’s not the engineers that are the problem, or even limited to the tech industry. Dark patterns are top-down business decisions, motivated by money.

    It’s not that the “tech industry doesn’t understand consent,” but rather that greedy people do evil things. And software is just a low hanging fruit for that kind of business.

      • LainTrain@lemmy.dbzer0.com
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        1
        arrow-down
        6
        ·
        edit-2
        8 months ago

        Software engineering has no culture - shared or otherwise. It’s just a job, you clock in, you clock out, it’s the same prison as anything else but with the comfort of WFH. The only maybe cultural aspect is that people refuse to unionize, but that’s a different issue and a result of material pressures (far too much demand for jobs gives uneven bargaining power).

        Bezos, musk, gates et al were never seen as heroes by those who don’t idolize capitalists and corpos to begin with, and are still seen that way by the rest.

        The future is indeed tech solutions and always has been, not an-prim nonsense and tech will indeed save us (and already has from every problem tackled thus far in humanity’s history, every disease etc.), but those tech solutions have to be aligned with humanity’s interests, and to do that you need to remove the exploitation incentive and the way you do that is by changing economic systems to communism or anarchism.

        Idk I don’t find it very frustrating, it’s very clean cut in my opinion.

    • Miaou@jlai.lu
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      2
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      8 months ago

      There are absolutely the problem, that’s actually the difference between a programmer and an engineer: the liability.

    • vzq@lemmy.blahaj.zone
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      3
      arrow-down
      4
      ·
      8 months ago

      It’s not the engineers that are the problem, or even limited to the tech industry. Dark patterns are top-down business decisions, motivated by money.

      Just following orders, right?

      Come on, that’s not how morality works.

      • LainTrain@lemmy.dbzer0.com
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        4
        arrow-down
        1
        ·
        8 months ago

        Are you a moron? Because you sound like one. Are you really equating wageslaves working for Google instead of facilitating the sale of gazillions of far more unethical products at their local Walmart by being an associate customer success checkout wagie or smth to soldiers committing attrocities? Do you not even realize the “you hate prison, yet you participate in it - curious” levels of bullshit that view entails?

        Because if you did that you’d be a moron. You are a moron.

        • vzq@lemmy.blahaj.zone
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          2
          arrow-down
          2
          ·
          8 months ago

          Are you seriously suggesting knowledge workers have no responsibility for how their work is used?

          • HowManyNimons@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            3
            arrow-down
            1
            ·
            8 months ago

            We have limited options in what we can do to get money. I currently have a job where I’m proud of what I do, but it took decades of working for assholes to get there. Even now I’m not comfortable with everything I’m asked to do. I push back when it’s unethical, and sometimes that changes things. Sometimes it doesn’t and I just have to do as I’m told. What’s your life like?

            • Corbin@programming.devOP
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              1
              arrow-down
              1
              ·
              8 months ago

              I directly tell my managers that what they are asking for is illegal, and then I refuse to do it. So far, I’ve yet to be forced to “do as I’m told,” and I doubt that this will ever be a problem for me as I don’t intend to sign up for the military or any other organization that can actually force people to follow orders.

                • Corbin@programming.devOP
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  arrow-up
                  1
                  arrow-down
                  1
                  ·
                  8 months ago

                  But you do sometimes get asked to do “unethical” things, and you’re “proud of what [you] do” even though “sometimes … [you] just have to do as [you’re] told.” Why? It sounds like you’ve chosen a compromised position “to get money.”

                  • HowManyNimons@lemmy.world
                    link
                    fedilink
                    arrow-up
                    2
                    arrow-down
                    1
                    ·
                    8 months ago

                    Because we’re all human beings and we all think slightly differently to each other. If I wanted to only work with people who exactly agreed with me about everything, then I would only be able to work alone.

                    I’m not talking about things that are red lines for me, just preferences. If it were something that caused me dissonance I’d move on again, I promise you.

                    I’m lucky enough to have the background and the aptitude to get a new job whenever I want. Most people aren’t that lucky.