A lot less annoying then endlessly filtering content by community and user
On the other hand, learning to deal with people you dislike is a useful skill. If everyone segregates themselves into opposing factions there will never be any progress.
Of course, I’ve personally blocked about 600 people…
I have enough people I dislike and disagree with IRL, I will have all my opinions confirmed when I’m browsing online, thankyouverymuch. /s
My reply test to see if you blocked me
You are not blocked, because you are beneath contempt.
[jk]
Personally I kind of don’t want everybody to be like-minded, because that becomes an echo chamber. What I’m after on Lemmy is people willing to explore subjects objectively, without beating the bushes for enemies or competing for upvotes.
It is the opposite. People join an instance which does not agree with their point of view. They get banned. They move to a different instance.
Echo chamber galore.
Doesn’t this lead to potential echo chambers though. If I go and block all content I don’t like, how can I have ideas that challenge my beliefs?
Who cares? It’s social media, I come here for entertainment. Don’t let it form your opinions and believes. Read credible newspapers and journals from across the spectrum and go touch grass and have a civil conversation with a stranger if you want to hear ideas that challenge your beliefs.
People are downvoting you not because you are wrong, but because it really hurts when you call people out with this kind of precision. It should be common sense that the message boards full of randos shouldn’t be the foundation of one’s political worldview, but it’s also really easy to make message boards full of randos an integral part of one’s social life.
Getting your news from credible, non-social sources, is important. Being able to read an article and move on without heading to the comments is important. Having conversations with real people offline is important. But those things don’t offer the same steady drip of dopamine that social media provides.
A lot of people here are excessively online, and in desperate need of grass touching, and they don’t want to be told that directly, but they do also need to hear it.
Why not both?
Not everything has to have an opposing perspective, where’s the opposing community for knitting? Tearing?
Rip and tear, until it is done. And you can start knitting again.
c/tearrorists
I wouldn’t pull that thread if I were you.
Probably purling.
Some people don’t come to social media to have their beliefs challenged and that’s okay.
The solution here, I believe, would be to not block them.
o7 to the brave admins of Hexbear, Lemmy’s tankie quarantine instance.
People talk about filter bubbles, but there’s a nuance here: on Lemmy, you’re not being served up whatever the platform owners think you should see from an opaque algorithm. You’re going to, by default, see cesspool content. You have to choose to block it.
Unfortunately, the owners of your instance can also choose to block something for you.
But that gets back to something similar to OP’s statement. As in, you can spin up your own instance (though a not entirely trivial process), or you have the freedom to choose an instance that matches your style [edit: and people tend to gravitate towards an instance admin policy that matches their preferences].
Some people want some content blocked - e.g. NSFW, or even NSFL. Or even better, slap a label on each content item, which rather than have to choose between the binary options of forcibly remove or allow fully, offers each person their own choice to view or not. PieFed even has a NSFL/gore/gross tag that you can set, though only for posts ATM not comments.
I find the Fediverse really friendly in regards to NSFW/NSFL content, in that it is both here but virtually never unlabeled (ONCE in the last year iirc there was a particular spam account that got through…). Politicial or extremist content not so much unfortunately, so we’re back to blocking or defederating, for those for whom consent of the reader of their messages means little to nothing.
To me Lemmy.world is just a place to login, I forget how I even got here. But I really don’t think of it as one instance vs others or care how it compares with others. The content is what matters, and if I finally understand it correctly the content is everywhere.
Mostly that’s true but not entirely. The common analogy is that the Fediverse is a bunch of pirate or free trading ships passing in the night, each passing messages from one to another until they all have all of the messages - “federation”. However, some captains have some bad blood between them and other captains and refuse to pass messages from them along - “defederation”. And for good reason I need to add, bc if outright illegal material were to make its way onto your “ship”/computer then you could be in big trouble, like literally with the FBI or other equivalent governmental agency in other countries. Or imagine that some captain decides to send out a virus - not all of these captains are apparently ethical!
In practice, any captain of a ship can decide which messages they want to pass along to share with others vs. keep private solely for themselves (their own internal set of users). And likewise they get to decide which messages to receive too - like none from a particular source, or maybe only some if they are structured a certain way. And then on top of all of that, Lemmy.World in particular has decided to edit certain messages to filter out banned keywords that they deem offensive to their users.
So like an irl example is that a few years ago a bunch of people/captains decided to create Alt-Right instances, and these spewed forth violent rhetoric and pedophilic content throughout the Fediverse - which in addition to being not nice was highly illegal. So rather than allow that to get us all in trouble with the FBI, in response all the other captains/instances decided to block/defederate from them. In theory I suppose you could spin up your own instance - becoming captain of your own ship - and you could choose to receive to those messages (but again, be careful about content that is literally illegal!). Although actually I think those instances may have shut down in the meantime, deciding to switch to the likes of Truth Social, so they probably are not around anymore to be federated with even if someone wanted to. Still, to be on the safe side, every instance I’ve ever seen has defederated from them, I guess in case they ever decide to come back.
So one practical way that this affects you personally is that Lemmy.world has decided to defederate from hexbear.net, a known nest of trolls (they enjoy a highly contentious argumentation style, but they don’t stop that even outside of their communities where it is consensual, and it is this refusal to consider consent of people outside of their echo chambers that makes them trolls). So no, this content in particular is not “everywhere” - it is blocked quite often from many/most instances.
If you truly wanted to experience the Fediverse with as few filtering of messages as possible (although remember that not all of it is offered in good faith), then you may want to make an account on lemm.ee rather than lemmy.world. But otherwise lemmy.world is a great instance - it is where ~80% of all the people on Lemmy are located.
Fantastic explanation, thanks for taking the time to post that! I’m fine with not having to sift through a lot of troll content and angry argument from people who just want an argument. There’s still a fair amount of “So WhAt YoU’rE SaYiNg Is [something I was not saying]” but I guess that’s inevitable. I think Lemmy.world is great.
Yeah some amount of that is inevitable, but see e.g. https://hexbear.net/post/3820065 for an example of the type of content that you are “missing”, being on lemmy.world that has defederated from hexbear. Also note how it’s not just the post itself but how supportive of the position the comments are (overall), with several of them expressing an explicit desire to do such again, and the overall theme being how “funny” it was.
Now mind you, there is still a lot of similar content that you aren’t “missing”, from places such as lemmy.ml, but hexbear.net is most definitely a special place full of toxic trolls (many of whom continue to troll us after the defederation via their lemmy.ml alts, bc consent means little to them). Here is another example, this time from lemmy.ml that almost no instances have defederated from, since the admins are also the developers of the sourcecode for Lemmy: https://lemmy.ml/post/22043103. The cognitive dissonance is in full display on that instance by declaring that what the Western nations do is “genocide” (I mean…), yet somehow what Russia and China are doing is not genocide - either directly (Uyghurs & Ukraine) or indirectly (the USA has sent support to Israel, while Russia has also sent support to the other side of that conflict). Realistically, both the USA and Russia are supporting genocide, but NOT EQUALLY SO, as one of those two nations is also actively engaging in that activity directly.
Because of so very many posts from this, and toxic trolling from many of their users, I have gone to great lengths to find a way to block both hexbear.net and lemmy.ml, even switching instances to piefed.social that allows a normal user, without needing admin support, to block all users from any instance of my choice (https://piefed.social/post/307636 ). There are also some apps that can do that as well, though you won’t find that option provided in basic Lemmy. I’m not necessarily advocating for such a switch, but it’s nice to know that it’s possible, and it is good to be aware of what content is out there and in particular note where it comes from - i.e. you may want to block at the very least communities such as !memes@lemmy.ml, if you don’t enjoy having the above-mentioned content finding its way into your feed.:-)
Good choice of instance :-)
I agree.
Yeah, the SDF instance seems to be lenient about this. Hopefully it will last.
Hah, the world admins are desperately trying to keep the instance running, blocking shit isn’t even close to their radar.
deleted by creator
They don’t block dbzero, I get that, it’s usually just ignorable.
Wait, is some content blocked on some instances and available on others? If that’s true then I still don’t understand lemmy - I thought the content was everywhere.
Some instances choose to “defederate” other instances, which means that users from one won’t be able to see or intract with content from the other. This is primarily meant to combat instances that create spam or host illegal content, but many instances use it for political purposes.
And without that capability, every instance would be a cesspool of Nazi and pedo content flooding in from the Fediverse’s dark side.
The instance I’m on doesn’t seem to block any other instances and I’m not seeing any Nazi or pedo content.
hello fellow sdf’er :) I specifically chose SDF so I could choose what to block myself, and so far I have just blocked a lot of anime. Anything political I see is leftist.
I was happy today when I made a post on an obscure community and some guy just passing by on the “new” feed left a comment.
Very true, count dongulus.
The downside of that is the filter bubble or echo chamber effect. Question is whether Lemmy should be a fun experience for you or something to broaden your horizons a little
Counterpoint: filtering out the furry communities by blocking a single instance
Honestly if the furies want to have there own space that’s fine. Just don’t invade the rest of Lemmy. Same goes for hexbear and whatever else.
Absolutely. I don’t have any hate for them it’s just not my thing and it’s a bit unpleasant when I see it. It’s a great feature for the fediverse that we can filter and let others enjoy their thing in peace.
You can listen to people try to convince you that Russia’s war is justified and that Tienamen Square never happened for a while if you want, then make up your mind and block them later ;-).
It was super fun to be gaslit by people while I was actually living in Taiwan but yeah, gets old after a while.
Bruh. It’s not an echo chamber to filter out literal Nazis and other stuff. Ain’t nobody changing their mind from “spirited” internet debate and I don’t need their garbage in my day.
If you really mean “literal Nazis”, that tends to support the hypothesis that you’re not being exposed to much that contradicts your worldview.
Tell me more about how you must listen to literal Nazis on a daily basis to contradict your worldview.
And if you don’t think Lemmy has or has had to deal with literal Nazis:
Lol
You are referring to literally everyone you disagree with as a Nazi. You are an example of someone who lives in a toxic filter bubble.
No, I don’t. When I call people Nazis and fascists it’s because I know what both of those words mean, being literate.
Then you are missing the point because there are tons of people who disagree with you who aren’t Nazis. OP is talking about how it’s great how you can only talk with people you agree with.
It has been awhile, but there were some Lemmy instances that people made to discuss Alt-Right viewpoints. They are all defederated now, but they caused quite the stir back in the day. Look it up. Here’s a start:
- https://lemmy.one/post/826991
- https://lemmy.one/post/906167
- https://lemmy.fmhy.ml/post/841229
- https://lemm.ee/post/4644626
- https://rammy.site/post/328763
- https://rammy.site/post/328192
- https://lemmynsfw.com/post/614579
So, granted that there are not really (self-proclaimed neo-) Nazis here now, but this is still a fairly recent series of events in the shared consciousness of Lemmings. Also, fascism is alive and well world-wide, and on Lemmy very much in the open and in the here and now.
You are replying to a comment thread that is about blocking Nazis, it’s completely disingenuous to act like that’s not a legit problem and that anyone is talking about anything other than actual fucking Nazis. They are real. No one said everyone they disagree with is a Nazi because that’s fucking stupid.
No shit, genius.
For example, the liberals endorsing genocide for realpolitik aren’t fascists, they’re just doing what American liberals have done since the founding of liberalism as an ideology.
I disagree with them but don’t call them Nazis and don’t think their opinions on other things shouldn’t be heard.
What instance is “literal Nazis”?
There are many that were defederated many months ago that aren’t even the common ones discussed. I forget some of their names but you can review the defed lists. They are beyond the pale, open open racism, calls for open violence, CP, etc. I’m not talking about some double speak, bad policy maga stuff, I’m talking about cartoons showing minorities as animals, cartoons of lynchings, etc.
The fediverse is a big place.
Edit who the fuck downvotes this
Edit who the fuck downvotes this
Fwiw, I see only 9 upvotes but 0 downvotes from PieFed.social. Meaning that your 2 downvotes must come from an instance that is defederated from by PieFed.social - likely hexbear.net if I had to guess. That is one of the downsides to not defederating from such places - you get to see and vote on a wider array of content, but they get to do the same to you as well, and unlike you, they may have their own priorities about how to treat such matters. e.g. I don’t think I’ve ever downvoted anything at all from my current account (except once accidentally, easily remedied!:-), and if the situation came up I would rather explain my disapproval rather than merely downvoting… but they may do things differently, hiding behind the relative anonymity of a vote to try to silence / lessen the reach of your POV.
So it goes. My question was more rhetorical. If someone takes issue with my identifying some instances that have that content, fuck em.
I was speaking to the general practice of filtering in response to the echo chamber generalization, not the original post calling out instances. Personally I filter out porn instances because that’s not what I’m here for. The nice thing about the app I use is that I don’t see any posts from those instances but I can choose to see comments because people interacting on the posts I see are generally there for random reasons and are reacting instead of posting their whatever.
Eating poisoned shit isn’t broadening your horizons.
That’s my philosophy too. I like browsing all so I heavily filter with keywords and blocking. My community block list is approaching 600
100%. I don’t want to spend my free time scrolling past the political options of every single fuckhead in the world, these topics achieve nothing but pissing each other off. Block, block and block again.
I still remember the old-school crude internet saying of bygone days: “Arguing on the internet is like completing in the special Olympics; even if you win you’re still retarded”
More wise words from MY_ANUS_IS_BLEEDING.
For these
social mediaad companies to profit, self awareness had to be done away with. The profit machine stops working when the crowd realizes they’re trapped inside of it.I don’t think the older internet was crude. It was more polished than the social media garbage of today. Corporatized internet had to mess all that the old internet worked to achieve. Because if everyone starts understanding the meta-dynamics of the internet again, then crowds will realize they’re trapped inside corporate internet. The profit machines would stop working.
You ever notice how the old internet figured out the basic rules of teh game decades ago. But trying to tell the social media crowds how these things work is like talking to a brick wall.
As if the default Lemmy experience isn’t a massive filter bubble in itself. I doubt hardly anyone here would want to federate with Twitter and Truth Social even though that would make your feed, in fact, less of an echo chamber. Hell, a huge number of inctances don’t even federate with Hexbear, Lemmygrad or Threads.
I think it’s pretty much impossible to fully get out of filter bubbles, but the only way to really get every view on everything is to be part of everything mainstream AND everything more underground. Personally, I don’t feel the need to associate with any other social media. I think toxicity differs from being exposed to a different point of view.
Reddit has had the problem for years that if you tried to make a point that slightly differed from the hive mind’s opinion, however eloquently you would put it, everyone would just pile on with their ‘akshually’ mentality and not even be open to any other viewpoint than their own.
And that’s toxicity without even mentioning folks that would just say ‘no’ followed by hateful language.
I feel Lemmy is a far kinder, more balanced community where you can have a polite discussion about stuff. And OP is right, if a certain instance shows its users can’t behave or have such different views than your own, you can just make them go away and enjoy the rest of Lemmy.
I just hope those users don’t defederate from the rest of us so at some point they will have a more nuanced view of things.
I feel Lemmy is a far kinder, more balanced community where you can have a polite discussion about stuff.
My experience has been much closer to what you described reddit to be. Lemmy is extremely unwelcoming of differing opinions.
Disagreeing with your perspective is easy because it’s utterly misguided. Lemmy is a paragon of inclusivity, welcoming all opinions as long as they adhere to basic decency. The platform thrives on a diverse range of ideologies, from anti-capitalist to anarchist, fostering a rich tapestry of debate and discussion. If you find it unwelcoming, maybe it’s because you can’t handle being called out for having incorrect views. ^(/s)
You’re free to go thru my comment history, find one with lots of downvotes and point out to me where I wasn’t ‘adhering to basic decency.’
Are you one of today’s lucky 10,000 in learning what /s means?
Damn those are actually some great thoughts imho - like https://lemm.ee/post/42493021. Fwiw I would have upvoted that one if I had seen it (I’m purposely not subscribed to showerthoughts, so I only see the ones that hit All).
Likewise, I see that Lemmy has a bit of a hive mind issue. At the same time it has an enormous toxicity issue, e.g. it is hexbear’s own self-stated purpose for existence, and they refuse to limit their “dunk” sessions to those who consent to such, continuing beyond the boundaries of their own communities and instance. So we simultaneously would enjoy greater diversity of opinions while at the same time we have too much trolling happening to make that possible.
By the latter I mean that modding efforts seem one of the primary limiting factors here - e.g. I used to be a mod myself for two small gaming communities in Reddit but there’s no way I’m doing that here. Reddit was far more toxic overall, but Lemmy has greater swings of both maximum friendliness (& that overall) while also significantly worse toxicity allowed in certain corners of the Fediverse.
Anyway, one possibility is that your posts merely went out to the wrong audience - as I said, *I* would have really enjoyed the aforementioned post, and upvoted and commented in it, if I had known it existed, and surely while those of us who enjoy such may be more rare than common across the Fediverse, we aren’t entirely non-existent either?
This is where having a larger userbase, to allow such niche interests to flourish more readily, could help. Then again, we already trend more towards deeper conversations than are possible on Reddit anymore, so maybe it’s doable here?
If you end up starting a community to put such thoughts into, I would love to join it?
I have already personally defederated from the likes of hexbear.net (my prior instance had not done that) and lemmy.ml - the latter I even switched instances specifically to be able to do (although now that I’m here I’m finding it amazing what features are here that Lemmy lacks, like Categories on top of Communities).
There is a difference between a valid point of view, presented in good faith, vs… the opposite of that, masquerading itself as a merely “different POV”. In essence, while I am aware that I blocked many good people and therefore some good content, I decided that it was a good trade-off for me to be able to halt the flood of what is essentially spam sent out to the Fediverse from those instances.
I would rather see receipt of such spam be opt-in rather than have to find a way to opt-out, but it is what it is. At which point yes, according to this perspective at least, under this set of value judgements, then it is helpful that so many of the spammers congregate into one place making that process easier. At the expense of others who are now blocked as well, having done or even intended no wrong but being caught up in that war of ideologies. We live in a society though and our actions impact others, whether we like or even acknowledge that or not.
I’m reminded of a quote that goes something like this:
I’ve been thinking about the free exchange of ideas recently and come to the conclusion that it isn’t an open market - it’s a potluck.
Everybody brings something to the table and you’re free to pick and choose the things that you want to try, but you’re not obligated to try everything. Just because Karen put a piece of shit on the table and calls it a sandwich doesn’t mean that you have to take a bite to know that it’s shit. Similarly, we are not obligated to take white supremacists and other extremists’ ideas and seriously debate their value. They’re shit and can and should be treated as such.
The beauty of a self-curated experience is that you’re free to engage with the things that you want and can ignore the things that you don’t want to deal with. The risk of people isolating themselves is simply a part of having the freedom to choose your own experiences, the same as the real world.
Personally, one of the reasons that I’m here is because I have no choice but to deal with right-wing extremism in my daily life, and I don’t want to deal with it online as well. Reading news articles? That’s fine, but I don’t want to see chuds screaming about DEI or woke or whatever in the comments.
This reminds me of Innuendo Studios’ latest offering (yes Ian Danskin is sharing some videos again!) Why Don’t You Respond To Criticism?.
Yep. See also: sea-lioning, the gish gallop, and a myriad of other tactics used by the far-right.
Also, another of my favorite quotes:
I’m not doing homework for you. I’ve known you for 30 seconds and enjoyed exactly none of them.
Self-curating my social media experience is self-care.
Hahaha absolutely yes! That series is hands-down my absolute favorite of all of YouTube, which is really saying something next to the likes of Kurzgesagt and Crash Course series. Also Ian Danskin’s other videos like the agency / protagony one - chef’s kiss! 😘
I feel like the term echo chamber gets thrown around a lot. Imo an echo chamber has to be highly specific. I wouldn’t classify every monolingual person as trapped in an echo chamber for example. I would also argue against to idea of having to be weary of creating your own echo chamber online. Use social media how you like, the solution to echo chambers is going outside and touching grass not forcing yourself to interact with every community on the internet.
It’s an echo chamber whether you think that’s a bad thing or not, only being exposed to one type of view point is what an echo chamber is. And people probably should be exposed to opinions they disagree with, but it doesn’t have to be constantly, and it doesn’t have to be when they’re already stressed or tired, for the sake of their mental health.
Very well put!:-)
wary=cautious
weary=tired
It’s a good comment just trying to help.
Ha, I was tempted to make basically the same comment. I’m super weary of people mixing the two up!
I wouldn’t classify every monolingual person as trapped in an echo chamber
Simply being something isn’t an echo chamber, you have to have a thought or opinion being shared by the group. If every person you interact with only speaks one language, and they all share that one language is the best method of communication, that’s an echo chamber.
Use social media how you like
I agree. Although it is useful to be aware of your own biases.
the solution to echo chambers is going outside and touching grass not forcing yourself to interact with every community on the internet.
Assuming you don’t mean literally “touch grass”, the solution is seeking out opinions/thoughts outside of your echo chamber. That doesn’t necessarily mean forcing yourself to interact with terrible communities, but being aware and understanding (but not agreeing with) them.
Although I again refer to using social media how you like is fine. No one needs to be exposed to certain communities. It’s not wrong or lazy or bad to ignore certain communities or viewpoints, especially toxic ones. However you should be aware that they exist and it can be helpful, if you choose, to understand where they come from.
As a harmless example, if you don’t like brussel sprouts and none of your friends like brussel sprouts, it may benefit you to try brussel sprouts or to seek out and talk to or read about people who like brussel sprouts. You can still at the end of the day dislike brussel sprouts. You don’t have to change your opinion. But now your opinion is more well rounded.
Like most things, there’s a sliding scale. I block two instances (in my client) because of the high noise-to-signal ratio, and a few individuals who I find particularly obnoxious. I’ve never blocked anyone who I thought was trying to have a good-faith argument with me, regardless of their position. But I also don’t feel obligated to stand and listen to the MAGA dipshit shouting obscenities at minorities, either. Is it an echo chamber? No more than me not watching Fox “News”.
Although, Lemmy leans strongly left, and the instances are tankie ones; there isn’t a lot of right-leaning posting IME. I think this is a particularly difficult time for reasonable conservatives because of how their party has been co-opted by fascists. The instances I’m on doesn’t do a lot of defederating, but I know just by virtue of being on Lemmy, I’m getting a left bias.
Yeah I’m not sure that there are any real conservatives left. Like I would have thought that Liz Cheyney was one, but look what happened to her, despite how high-profile she was.
George W. Bush was even a progressive, funding schools and feeding homeless people etc. But then the Tea Party - Ted Cruz, Newt Gingrich, Sarah Palin, etc. - started taking over control from that old guard of actual conservatives, both fiscal and cultural (wouldn’t Mitch McConnell and Lindsey Graham qualify here as good examples?). However, before that process could finish, the Alt Right started up, with even moar-er(-est) “alternative facts” and literally neonazi propaganda, leaning heavily on the blatant racism components (rather than hiding behind “wish we could help but the budget you know…”). And now I’m not sure if what is here is even still the Alt Right or something else altogether.
I think if Ron Desantis had won the nomination things would be different, but as it is the entirety of the Republican party bows now solely to Trump, making it more about loyalty to him than about any particular policies anymore. i.e. should we say that the Alt-Right is dead, killed ironically for not being extreme enough for some of its most outspoken members, and now Republican party = Trump? JD Vance certainly is showing how that works, having once decried Trump but that was then and this is now. Speaking of, JD Vance seems to want us to call the current movement the New Right, which if they win, basically means (as best as I can tell) that Trump will not be a President but made into an actual monarch.
Completely agree, except that I’d amend that no real conservative politicians exist. I think there are a lot of real conservatives - you named several - but that simply can’t get elected with our current election mechanisms. Primaries need to be eliminated. Progress like adoption of RCV needs to expand. The electoral college needs to be eliminated. If we can make progress in these areas, it’ll let moderate conservatives to regain control of their party. And it’d let people stop arguing and being frustrated with having to vote for the lesser of two evils.
Oh yeah sorry, I took that as a given. Liberals != Democrats, especially on matters such as gun control where even conservatives (~90% of Americans want some, limited forms of gun control), and conservatives != Republicans. Ahem, sometimes politicians LIE to get elected!?!?!! (How you can tell: their mouths move 👄:-) So yes you are absolutely correct, I meant the particular brand of lie that is attempted to be sold to their constituents.
And some (politicians) I assume may even be real believers, but not the ones who end up making it into the halls of power. Hence while I agree with all that you said, I don’t think that it will ever happen. RCV would allow someone other than those who are willing to literally kill to get in power win, hence it won’t be allowed to happen. I mean, it already has started happening, but it won’t be allowed to get as far as being able to sway the election overall. Wow how I wish I was wrong!
Historically, no nation has ever survived having devolved into a 2-party system afaik, so I don’t hold out much hope for a long-term future. Especially since governments themselves are starting to take a back seat to multinational corporations that have more money, power, and ability to control things than the countries are allowed to retain. The EU is able to resist this, the USA refuses to for the most part but it can in a pinch if it wants, but who else could hope to?
After all, the wealthy control the very sources of news that we all consume, and if we don’t even know what’s going on, how can we make decisions - like what would they be based upon? Which ironically is why the open-source Fediverse made so many of us excited, to think about breaking free from underneath the control of the Almighty Algorithm. But then we accidentally walk into a community in lemmygrad.ml, hexbear.net, or some lemmy.ml posts and we begin to see the downsides to that - as this OP discussion is attempting to illuminate. Reddit at least allowed blocking of trolls, whereas if we want that here, we will need to expend the effort to make that happen.
Nicely put!
Reddit at least allowed blocking of trolls, whereas if we want that here, we will need to expend the effort to make that happen.
I don’t so much mind this, at least. It’s just curation, and I’d far rather have it in our hands than the hands of moderators or platform owners. Not that moderation isn’t useful, and hosting admins can still defederate - but giving users the ability to manage their own block lists, at the user, group, and instance levels, makes it less critical to have moderation, and makes moderation a little less prone to abuse.
Right! Except regardless of your wishes, “they” don’t seem to want for us to have that ability to block “them”. For a LONG time Lemmings begged, pleaded, and cajoled for the ability to make blocklists. The answer, as I see in the historical archives (hehe just older posts I mean:-), was always “just wait - we’ll implement this in 0.19”. Fast-forward to when that happened: it barely does anything at all.
A block of a “user”/account is iirc as full as it gets - I am not even certain that they can downvote you after that. A block of a “community” is likewise solid - those posts will not only not show up in your Subscribed feed, but even from your All one. However, a block of an “instance” merely blocks the communities from that instance, but the users themselves are still free to troll in other communities, free to reply to and ping you thus generating notifications, free to downvote you, and otherwise carry on almost as if you had done nothing at all wrt that particular instance. It is extremely weak.
Also I’m skipping over the details here but what little it used to do is steadily being rolled back so that it is even less effective than it was before (irt the generation of notifications). And since the developers of the Lemmy sourcecode are also the admins of Lemmy.ml, despite all the pitiable outcry from the users affected - there was one here just this week where an admin literally told someone to kill themselves, over a silly misunderstanding of something that happened inside of a video game - absolutely none of the largest instances will condone defederation from lemmy.ml.
And I get it: we are running their software. Abuse or no, we are the guests, and they are the masters of this Lemmy project. Yes it may be open-source, but if we want their future code releases, the boat cannot be rocked too awfully hard.
So, you can either block every user from that instance that you ever see, one by one, or… suck it up and take what “they” offer to you. Or find another solution.
But notably, I don’t want to just block users b/c of the moderation practices of the admins - it’s the users themselves that, trained within that echo chamber as to what they can get away with, troll people all across the entire Fediverse (unless they specifically defederate from that instance). From another comment I made elsewhere:
so e.g. I get to see Cowbee responding to people discussing tankie behavior with the “just trust me bro, no I refuse to share my references instead why don’t you hit me up in my DMs, hey why don’t you share YOUR references hrm, no I’ve never asked anyone to hit me up in my DMs in my life bro whutyoutalkinabout?”. As funny as it may be to watch, it does disturb me that “normies” as we are talking about in this post will be exposed to such, and have to learn first-hand what types of behaviors to expect from which servers that the admins of most instances will not defederate from.
It doesnt necessarily mean that importent things won’t be covered. I just don’t need fox news opinion about it.
Then you should pick a reputable paper like The Guardian and read a chronological RSS feed. Articles that don’t support Lemmys preexisting point of view don’t even get posted here.
They do. I’ve seen some - heck I’ve posted some. Sort a community by Controversial and you’ll see them.
If you had said “rarely” or “mostly” rather than “don’t even” then your statement would have been correct. As it is, you are using hyperbolic claims that are easily refuted by a handful of counterexamples, thereby turning people away from listening to your POV.
Maybe the solution is to either not restrict yourself to one platform or to be aware of the bubble.
The existence of “echo chambers” is debated by scientists. It really doesn’t matter who you hang around with, you’re going to disagree with people.
The echo chamber is overstated: the moderating effect of political interest and diverse media.
Tweeting from left to right: Is online political communication more than an echo chamber?
Underrated benefit of Lemmy is that it isn’t infested with bots the way its larger counterpart is. Reddit has really turned to garbage.
Lower quantity of content here, but more authentic
Meanwhile I’m on a Dutch instance and look at all the bs…
You dumb dumb Dutchland isn’t part of the Netherlands continent
You are the one with BS not me
I just sort of picked a server at random when I singed up. Turned out to be a cool place, but I am sure that is true for most instances.
I kinda did the same. Except I went for .ml and folks would call me a tankie for no other reason. Got kinda boring so I switched to another.
There are some instances that lean in specific directions, but there are also several that are kind of just melting pots. For the most part I don’t need to use blocks too frequently, but there are definitely some spaces/users that I find are too hostile that it gets in the way of their intended messaging. But then, that line is going to be different for everybody.
I think a bit the opposite: I’m really worried about the trend to give people only information they care about. I think it’s essential to be able to have information about everything. Of course there will always be stuff you don’t care about but having it automatically filtered out is dangerous in my opinion. In GAFA-powered social networks, you are only given pieces of information about your own opinion, you never have something that make you question yourself about your opinion. The power of independent and open media like Lemmy is to not rely on such biasing algorithms.
Lemmy has a mod problem honestly. Legitimate options get censored while the echo chamber is promoted.
There’s a nuance here that you’re missing - self-curating your social media experience is vastly different from the algorithm hellhole that is the modern corporate social media landscape. You can filter out any dissenting opinions or facts, but you can in real life, too. And like in real life, it takes a lot of active effort to get to that point. Whereas the algorithm will do that for you without you even knowing it.
I’d say that self-curated social media is like going off to college or moving to a new city while the algorithm is like living in the town you grew up in. I grew up in a very liberal state, but there were about 3 non-white kids in my entire high school the year I graduated, and it wasn’t until I was introduced to Tumblr in college in the late 2000s that I first heard words like “transgender.” And Tumblr is the most self-curated social media that I’ve ever seen. Back then, you couldn’t even follow hashtags - just people. So your front page was exclusively people that you followed and the posts that they reblogged from people that they followed.
Very interesting opinion, thanks for it.
You don’t have to use filters, just like you don’t have to subscribe to subreddits on Reddit. You can just use the default front page if you are afraid of tailoring it to your tastes.
Yep. I just raw dog All for the past 6 hours most of the time. The only communities I’ve blocked are the most active German ones because I don’t speak German.
Are you me
This is the way. Although I also block e.g. sports and hexbear - I already know that I don’t want any of that.
I just raw dog All for the past 6 hours most of the time.
Doing my part!
I think it attracts a certain type of person to Lemmy in the first place; someone who would have probably used the original Reddit back in the day
That explains the age demographic
Idk what this means but yeh
Other than the one we are all thinking of here, I can’t say I really agree.
2, hexbear and lemmygrad.
I don’t mind hexbear
I used to, but they either got blocked or defeded,. either way my experience got WAY better.
cough lemmy.ml cough cough hexbear cough
Help a noob out - it’s reddit, right?
Almost everyone is on Lemmy.world, so… I don’t know. Don’t think they made a choice. People who are not on Lemmy.world made a choice at least.
Not sure if a third is everyone
Should I be concerned about being on lemm.ee?
No, anyone gatekeeping Lemmy users who aren’t on the largest instances are fundamentally working against how the fediverse is supposed to work. lemm.ee is smaller, and generally politically neutral, but it also seems to properly moderate hate speech, violence, harassment, and illegal content. As long as that persists, all should be good.
If it ever comes to a “be on .world or you’re sus”, then .world can just disable federation and become Reddit 2 while the rest of Lemmy embraces decentralization.
