Iran has told Israel through the UN that it will intervene if the country’s operations against Hamas in Gaza continue, a report has claimed.
Israel has warned 1.1 million people living in the north of the enclave to evacuate ahead of an expected ground operation in Gaza with the IDF planning to strike the territory from land, sea and air.
Iran’s involvement could be through a militant group from Syria or by backing Hezbollah to join the conflict, diplomatic sources told Axios.
Meanwhile, Iran’s foreign minister Hossein Amirabdollahian said that Israel’s operations could cause fighting to expand to other areas of the Middle East which would cause Israel to suffer “a huge earthquake”, reported the Associated Press.
Israel is 110% not going to heed this warning in the absolute slightest.
Iran does not pose a credible military threat to Israel. They only have a couple of options - terrorist attacks from their proxies, maybe a cross-border incursion from Lebanon that would be a slaughter and change the balance of power there, or an air strike. Israel is so amped up right now that they’d respond with airstrikes inside Iran, and US carrier groups are in the area with no misunderstanding as to what they signify.
This is saber-rattling for theatrics.
Iran are not wrong though, Israel need to chill.
It’s really annoying how the mainstream media is like yeah this is cool, when they’re commuting atrocities no better than Hamas committed.
I don’t know what it is with Israel that makes the world walk on eggshells but they have committed horrific acts and they should be called out on it.
Fucking monsters the Israeli government are.
Fucking monsters the Israeli government are.
They are despicably evil.
Fuck Hamas and all people who support leftist terrorists
Hey man, you do know that Hamas has nothing to do with the left right? And yeah, fuck Hamas anyway, but you should not be equalizing leftism with terrorism support because, let me tell you, I have yet to meet one leftist that backs ups what Hamas did. The ones that “sound” lile they do, only are explaining that extremism is born through dispair, of which Palestinians have plenty of it after being ethnically clenaed for 70+ years. But that does not mean, in any way possible, that they not condemn Hamas actions. Quite the contrary, they condemn every terrorist action, Hamas or Israeli.
They might not be wrong about Israel committing atrocities. They would be wrong to add to it by committing atrocities of their own. The article certainly doesn’t seem to indicate they’ll “intervene” in a benign manner, and their track record is as blemished or worse.
This is doubly dumb if Israel is like they say. There is zero chance Israel would back down if Iran intervened; really, they’d probably have no issue extending the rampage to Iran as well. More people will die horribly.
It’s not right to sit and watch everyone commit various crimes against humanity. But adding your own violence with absolutely no chance at preventing loss of life, as Iran is implying they will do here, is somehow worse than apathy.
I’m not saying I support Iran with their threats but I think I have a problem with the generality of what you said. The same could be used to say the west shouldn’t support Ukraine with weapons because then the war would be over sooner, preventing deaths and violence.
Iran is an uninvolved third party poised to add to the bloodshed with no possible gain, unlike with Ukraine where lives in the future may be saved. I’m not saying there should be no third party interventions in general. Simply that Iran coming in to make things expressly worse— I think we can all see there will be absolutely nothing improved by their intervention— is of unparalleled uselessness and would result in pointless loss of life. If they could contribute, all power to them, but they cannot do anything but make it worse.
Again I am not in support of Iran taking action here, I disliked the general dismission of intervention in your first comment
I feel like even in that first comment alone I repeated that I’m against this specific case of intervention because it would be “committing atrocities of their own” despite “zero chance that Israel would back down,” and that adding “more violence with absolutely no chance of preventing loss of life”.
That’s three separate quotes from three separate paragraphs, very narrowly commenting only on Iran’s proposed intervention. I’m not sure how I could have made it more clear that I’m only against the pointless killing this specific intervention, the one indicated by the article would lead to? Like even now I don’t see how it could have been clarified, and I’m genuinely interested in knowing how. This thread isn’t even about intervention in general, just the exact instance I was commenting on.
Apologies if this sounds even the slightest bit hostile— I genuinely don’t mean it to have that tone, and I haven’t gotten into a single argument on Lemmy. I just cannot see how it wasn’t abundantly clear when I paid extra effort to comment very very very narrowly across three paragraphs in the first comment alone.
Iran is involved, they fund and support Hamas, teach them even.
Yeah fair point. I guess I meant more in the capacity of direct action, didn’t really think about it in that way
Iran, like Hamas, wants Israel to cease to exist for religious reasons. So they are natural allies with Hamas, and natural enemies with Israel.
Expressly worse? Do you mean like lobbing against a peace agreement like Boris Johnson did? Or is it like sending weapons but not all at once, just a little at a time to make the war last longer, just like NATO is doing in Ukraine?
Yup, expressly worse exactly like what Boris did. See, Boris didn’t take the only expressly worse slot in the whole world. Iran can also go cause harm for nothing.
We can whatabout all day and it doesn’t change that Iran “intervening” has no benefits. It’s clear that people disagree with me here, but not once has anyone attempted to express any upside to Iran inserting themselves in the way the article is detailing. You’re getting caught up in everyone else doing bad things that you… want Iran to do their own bad things, kill more people, have their people killed, and achieve nothing?
Don’t feel the need to respond unless you have something besides “but what about [the next horrible act]?” I’m not here defending everyone else’s crimes. I just think it’s stupid for Iran to add to the bodycount for no reason, and that purposeless violence should be avoided. I’m not on Lemmy to pointlessly argue on the internet like the olden days and I don’t want to waste your time either. I fully respect your concerns about other people doing bad things but they have no effect whatsoever on the topic set by this article, and whataboutism has never led to an interesting discussion, so if you want to talk please try something engaging. If you don’t have other thoughts, don’t feel the need to create one just to respond either, real conversations shouldn’t be forced.
And like I said elsewhere, please don’t take any of this as hostile. In recent years I’ve tried to remove negative emotions from my internet usage (we should all be here for a good time) and oddly I think it made me sound less friendly.
I’m happy to believe you, but do you have any sources besides för middleeasteye.net that lists the atrocities Israel’s done? I can find the atrocities Hamas has done everywhere, but the eye seems to be the only place I can find claims that Israel has done stuff that is wrong.
So you can check the United Nations for reputable repeats or condemnation of Israeli actions here is one suck link, but you can search more on the site. .
You can Google Israel using white phosphorus and again find reputable sources.
Also, listen to content from more liberal Israeli’s that are willing to call out their own government.
Again, I want to be abundantly clear I am not defending Hamas, peering pointing out that Israel are just as bad if not worse.
I’ve been very active this morning so stalk my profile to see all the posts I’ve been on and follow those sources and make up your own mind as we all should.
Don’t just believe me. I, like everybody on Earth, has bias.
I did search white phosphorus and all I found was an article from human rights watch, and above that, and article from twb guardian refuting it. I am happy to believe that both Hamas and Israel are committing atrocities, but I would like an actual source so I can point to when arguing with a pro Israel family member.
There is going to be lots of contradictory news sources for the next few weeks. Once the dust settles we will get a fuller picture of what have gone on.
That said you can find videos from Gaza and photos showing what appears to be white phosphorus being used.
The guardian article I saw said that Israel denies using it, which isn’t so much the guardian saying it didn’t happen.
Not that it matters but it’s a fact they used it in 2009 and so why wouldn’t they use it now? Again to be 100 we have to wait a little longer.
Things we do know though is they bombed Gaza and turned of the power so the hospitals couldn’t even help and there are dead Palestinian children thanks to Israeli retaliation.
Which is terrible, particularly since they condemned Hamas for killing Israeli children.
All I want is that Israel to be called out on their horrific acts just the same as we do for any other group, without being called an anti-Semite. Just because they had one of the best worlds worst things happen to them in WWII doesn’t mean they’re above criticism and if anything you would think they of all people would not perpetuate the same level of hatred for a group of people.
Indeed. It is not anti Jews to be anti Israel to the same level we are anti Hamas.
Believe, at most you’re gonna get frustrated and maybe, implicitly called anti-semite. I myself i’m of jewish heritage, and hate that people conflate israeli critiscism with antisemitism.
UN’s condemnations of Israel are about as credible as Putin’s statements on Ukraine.
How so?
They condemn Israel like it’s a pastime sport.
Just look at the last 50+ years.
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Illegal settlements? Two-tier justice system?
Not trying to kill every jew on sight.
Yeah, the only thing Israel is concerned about is the international reputation. They know they can’t go full ham, even now every western government in support is dropping the “and I am SURE Israel will keep to international law” as a hint and reminder that there is a limit somewhere.
Lol… The UN has been trying to chastise Israel for decades now for literally breaking international law, and the US shuts it down with their veto power. They’ve already been doing it for decades.
Jewish people don’t eat ham.
Also Israel had nukes and Iran doesn’t yet
Think they’ll speed it up now?
They’re idiots if they don’t.
What about ballistic missiles? Iran has it…
Israel hasn’t gotten many chances to test its other 2 layers of its defense system. Iron dome is just the first, short range layer.
A nuclear threat would change that.
Probably not all that much, to be honest. Look at India and Pakistan. That would be the closest example here.
Nuclear weapons’ most important role today is preventing an all out invasion of the country. Israel is already a nuclear power. They could launch a nuclear attack on Iran at any time. They don’t, for obvious reasons. Russia could launch a nuclear attack on Ukraine. They don’t, for equally obvious reasons.
I started my career in Soviet analysis, and ended up knowing quite a bit about the role of nuclear weapons in foreign and military policies. In the early days (50s), we thought it would be possible to fight and win a nuclear war. I don’t think anyone thinks that anymore.
There is no scenario which includes Russia using a nuclear weapon against Ukraine that does not end with the end of the Putin government if not the end of Russia as we know it. It wouldn’t even need to be a global nuclear war for that to happen.
The same holds true for India and Pakistan, which like I said is the best analogy. Implacable enemies with religious and territorial disputes, screwed over by colonialism, and ongoing low level violence.
Israel-Iran is the same, only more so. The I-P conflict doesn’t have the US as an unquestioning ally, unlike Israel. I-P have about 150 weapons each. Israel is estimated to have 100. Iran has 0, and even if and when they start production, they’ll have 5-10. And then you have to factor in the delivery of the weapon, which would be the opposition between the Iranian and Israeli (and US) air forces, with predictable results.
Thanks for your insights! I think I learned one or two things here. Please comment more on topics like these, if you like.
India and Pakistan, which like I said is the best analogy. Implacable enemies with religious and territorial disputes, screwed over by colonialism, and ongoing low level violence.
Sounds good indeed. I spotted another parallel between the two conflicts: Both can use the same abbreviation. At first I was confused when you started talking about “The I-P conflict”.
By whom? Israel is the only one with nukes in the area.
It’s signaling to the region.
Israel has a strong military for sure but they can’t fight every country. Also, declaring war on the Muslim world is not something Israel can win even with Western support.
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I mean they literally can fight every country, they did it before when they didn’t even have their MIC up and running yet
And did you say Russia was just saber-rattling back when they invaded Ukraine?
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They may tighten down some screws in preparation.
Why would they?
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So you’re ok with a world where everyone backs down at the word of Iran??
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Doesn’t that seem unethical, even if it might be lucrative?
If it’s good enough for elected US representatives, it’s good enough for me.
They were talking about ethics, something an elected official would know nothing about.
Yeah but they answered their own question. If it’s lucrative, it’s unethical.
The true answer is unequivocally yes. Fuck everyone who says otherwise trying to justify this ghoulish shit.
I would argue the whole system is unethical. Capitalism has never bothered itself with ethics. That said, it’s arguably even more unethical.
Ethics are a social construct and are subjective. Thus - irrelevant.
Only irrelevant if you don’t live in a society.
Irrelevant in any case. Unless you live in a conservative close minded society and never see any people from other cultures.
Only irrelevant if you don’t live in a society.
Irrelevant in any case. Unless you live in a conservative close minded society and never see any people from other cultures.
Not really, people have a right to defend themselves, and security is a human right.
Defending yourself? Of course that’s a right. Making bank from WAR? Probably not.
Well, what in the hell are you supposed to defend yourself with if no one makes weapons!? What kind of fucking logic is that?
That’s not what I’m saying tho? You’re twisting my words.
I’m not saying no one should make weapons. I’m saying no one should be able to make lots of money by exploiting the suffering of others (which is in this case, war).
Oh come on, wth is lots of money? And where do you draw the line at some money being made?
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Stares at casualties in Palestine yeah… No.
Step 1: go outside
Step 2: touch grass
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Because when the grass is burning, it’s kind of hard to touch it.
So you expect that at some point in the future of mankind, there will be a period with no active conflict and weapons snuggling? 😂 my sweet child…
I think snuggling weapons is weird but one of the best uses for them
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Naruto in a nutshell
My mad smuggling, but snuggling also works I guess 😎
weapons snuggling
I wish
There’s always a lot of weapons snuggling going on in the US.
Elsewhere… It varies, but typically, not so much.
So you expect that at some point in the future of mankind, there will be a period with no active conflict and weapons snuggling?
As soon as we can learn to share resources and land.
I wish… Archeology shows, that people have been killing people since before proper tribes where formed. Call me a pessimist, but i don’t see a future where we truly learn to life peacefully.
Well I think of humanity as a “work in progress”, improving over the ages, so my hopes are that we grow up out of killing each other instead of sharing resources and land.
Well, I certainly hope you are right
You and me both.
From a Sci-Fi show about dyson spheres and habitats: “Where man goes, war will follow.” Made me sad, because I guess it’s true.
So this could widen to Israel/USA/UN(?) vs Iran/Syria/Lebanon(Hezbollah)/Gaza(Hamas) which would essentially be The War on Terror II. Which means another ~20yrs in the Middle East. Oh goody.
Raytheon💦
Lockheed 📈📈📈
time to invest in knife missiles
And time to short children in busses and weddings.
The ones that shoot little knives from inside
Just what the world needs. I am getting some faint WWI vibes too. Maybe I am just being paranoid. But it seems like this could expand to more middle eastern countries than you’ve listed, should things go horribly wrong. I could also see this being turned into another proxy war—revenge by Russia for Western support for Ukraine.
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Hope you’re wrong too.
I don’t like the idea of Hezbollah / Iran getting involved at all. That’s why two US Navy carrier groups will be in the area shortly. Wouldn’t be surprised if Russia pushes for that involvement though. And I could see us bolstering Israel with air power at a minimum.
I don’t think Russia has anything to spare for a big push, and I don’t see any reason to think our Intelligence community can’t juggle Ukraine, Taiwan, and Gaza simultaneously. Even if we were distracted, we aren’t involved enough in Ukraine for it to matter imo. But you might be right about finding. The right wingers in congress would probably get louder about dropping funding.
China going for Taiwan amidst all this would make this quite a circus. Ugh.
Well at least this time it won’t involve trench warfare, the deserts have too much sand that’ll fill back into any we try to dig!
I do not think you are paranoid. Maybe not straight out world war, but more war in the Middle East and Northern Africa. Egypt for example is suspiciously silent in the matter, although they are already trying to negotiate with Israel to curb the influx of Palestinian refugees. They sit straight at the border and their help for people in Gaza is still just discussed. I am sure they know other countries are watching their decisions on this.
Some people do not want to accept it but this is very much a war between religions as well. For many Muslims there is only one correct answer: Israel has to go. It’s part of their identity to want the area to be a Muslim country. This also has an effect on countries everywhere. For example in Germany there is a huge drive to stand behind Israel in this matter. At the same time, Germany has a big Muslim immigrant population.
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Let’s see how long that continues if Iran gets in on this.
And the UN codemn the Hamas terrorist attacks, so what’s your point? And what occupation?
The UN is always in favor of condemning Israel. It’s their favorite past time.
MIC: rubbing-hands.gif
And this can easily lead to more wars in the Middle East. Once more, innocent will die, and soldiers will not return home because stupid bloodlusting leaders of Israel, Iran, and Hamas just can’t get enough blood.
This could easily lead to WW3…
Nobody is starting a ww for the middle east… It might lead to more proxy wars.
Maybe, but this could also be just another Tuesday in the middle east.
Their Fridays are Saturdays, so its probably more like just another Wednesday for them
Real question: why is the us so involved with israel?
Is it just a “sunk cost fallacy” thing or is it any more than that?It feels weird sinking so much money for someone else’s wars over so many decades… like trillions over wars and apart from ukraine recently its been always and only israel demanding the aid
Real question: why is the us so involved with israel?
they’re meant to be a main ally in the middle east for the US
most of the other countries are either allied with Russia/China/Iran/etc or too unstable
there’s also massive israel lobbying in the US https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel_lobby_in_the_United_States
tbh kinda the US’s only ally. Turkey kinda is, and Saudi Arabia really just sells us oil.
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I think they meant the US’s only ally in the middle east, not the whole planet.
Although it’s still wrong considering the US is allied with turkey, Kuwait, UAE, etc
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The US is a global, industrial empire. To maintain that position, we need to make sure threats to our influence are kept to a minimum, and we need to provide security to the global trade system that we and our allies benefit from. Israel is aligned with the West culturally and ideologically, and so it’s a natural partner, and given its location in an oil-rich region, right next to the Suez Canal, and a stone’s throw from or bordering several of our major global adversaries’ proxies, it’s a natural and necessary ally.
Anything else, like the Evangelicals’ bizarre obsession, is purely coincidence or post-facto.
And there is that Islamists on the other side. Indonesians (muslims) really detest America and Israel, for example.
Funny thing is Christians and other minor religion followers support Israel because of local tension (minorities are suppressed in Indonesia).
Half of evangelicals support Israel because they believe it is important for fulfilling end-times prophecy
According to prophecy, Israel must exist to bring about rapture, when Jesus’s followers will ascend to heaven and everyone else will be killed. Since they are not followers of Christ all Israelis would be killed.
They probably think they’re s clever. “Silly Jews, you think you’ve got such a good deal with all this free money but wait until the magic sky man comes and murders every one of you in cold blood because that’s what somebody who claims to love people does, murders billions of them, and you’re first! Ha ha. Silly magic sky man, doesn’t even know about all the loopholes.”
I read this in Homer Simpson’s voice.
Corruption and money laundering through the military complex. I mean who needs free medical care anyways, right? That’s for European commies.
Evangelical caucus believes that the Jews trying to build the third temple will make the rapture happen.
Dumbfucks can’t even read their own book right.
We have a lot of enemies out that way and so do they, so we became allies and support them because it’s in our best interest. We keep supporting them because apparently they’ve held up whatever end of the bargain we request and for the US money is easy.
Yeah they just print more of it
Almost all that money ends up back in the United States.
Well a few years back a group of really nasty people tried to murder every Jewish person. Then a thing or two happened, the USA nuked a few cities because the State in which those cities existed allied themselves with the people that wanted to murder all the Jews.
Now, we have the back of the Jews, and one of Hamas’ stated purposes is to murder all the Jews. Makes sense we’d be interested in keeping that from happening. Genocide is kind of a bad thing.
Big yikes. History revisionist.
Generally speaking he’s not incorrect.
Generally speaking that’s a lot of self-serving bs narrative
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Because the US realises that the goal of groups like Hamas and Hisbollah from Iran, and many other extremist Muslim groups, is to get rid of all Jews in the area. But it seems like on Lemmy many people are okay with genocide, as long as it targets the “right” group of people.
There were/are many genocides over the past 70 years for which the US had/has the chance to intervene. If this was really our goal, why haven’t/don’t we step in for them?
There were/are many genocides over the past 70 years for which the US had/has the chance to intervene. If this was really our goal, why haven’t/don’t we step in for them?
Because at some point people have to figure out their own shit for themselves.
America can’t be the policeman for the world forever, fixing everyone’s problems 24/7. We have our own problems to focus on as well.
We usually get involved when things get extreme, or when someone’s trying to keep us from the oil (just keeping it real).
I just realized you’re not the same person, but your response is still weird given the context of the conversation.
Original below, but ignore it I guess.
Because at some point people have to figure out their own shit for themselves.
Uh…The question was “why is the US so involved with Israel,” and you replied it’s because the US is against genocide. So then, ‘shouldn’t Israel be figuring its shit out’ without us?
We usually get involved when things get extreme, or when someone’s trying to keep us from the oil (just keeping it real).
Agreed, but I’m not the one picking favorites here.
I just realized you’re not the same person, but your response is still weird given the context of the conversation. … Original below, but ignore it I guess.
Considering you took what I said out of context, so it sounds like I’m saying something completely different, I couldn’t really ignore it, and had to reply to it.
Next time it might be better if you just deleted what you said, especially if it wasn’t towards the intended person.
Uh…The question was “why is the US so involved with Israel,” and you replied it’s because the US is against genocide.
So I was responding to this, specifically the italicized part…
There were/are many genocides over the past 70 years for which the US had/has the chance to intervene. If this was really our goal, why haven’t/don’t we step in for them?
As far as this goes…
So then, ‘shouldn’t Israel be figuring its shit out’ without us?
My actual previous response included this sentence…
We usually get involved when things get extreme
Finally just because you were very selective in my comment sentences that you quoted, let me include the whole thing down here below, for anyone else who may be reading this…
Because at some point people have to figure out their own shit for themselves.
America can’t be the policeman for the world forever, fixing everyone’s problems 24/7. We have our own problems to focus on as well.
We usually get involved when things get extreme, or when someone’s trying to keep us from the oil (just keeping it real).
Dude, i wasn’t even trying to talk to you. I thought I was talking to the other guy, which is why I left that there. Calm down.
Calm down.
Someone manipulates what I say so that it sounds like I said something different, I’m going to respond and push back. Anyone would.
You should have deleted your comment.
But it seems like on Lemmy many people are okay with genocide, as long as it targets the “right” group of people.
There are also many who do not want to see anyone get hurt.
And there are also many who want to support a terrorist implicitly by not explicitly denouncing his actions, just because their leftist ideology demands it from them
When it comes to human beings, there are always many thoughts and many perspectives.
The only reason the US wouldn’t be on the side of the European colonists bringing god and civilization to a deserted wasteland full of annoying houses and mysteriously angry natives is antisemitism. Once that calmed down criticizing Israel is criticizing US history and that would be woke.
Proxy war between the US and Iran
I think if Iran steps in with feet on the ground, the US probably will too, unfortunately.
Fucking Nicky Hailey is foaming at the mouth for it to happen.
Iran won’t go officially. They’ll just pay Hezbollah to go in.
Close, but look above Iran and you’ll see even more strings.
Elaborate?
Russia.
I assume they mean Russian and/or China.
As if Iran’s fingers weren’t in the fucking pot from the start of this shit show. Bitch we’ve got the receipts that you all but handed Hamas the plans for their little murder rape and pillaging expedition.
For real. This is so blatantly a play by Iran to drive a wedge between Israel and the Islamic nations it has recently been normalizing relations with - UAE, Bahrain, Sudan, Morocco… They were in talks with Saudi Arabia, and that would have been a bridge too far.
And of course, predictably, Israel responded exactly according to plan.
Source?
https://www.wsj.com/world/middle-east/iran-israel-hamas-strike-planning-bbe07b25
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/13/world/middleeast/hamas-iran-israel-attack.html
Not sure if that’s the type of source parent was referencing. My understanding of the consensus among certain groups is that the point of this conflict, from Iran’s perspective, is to make it unappealing for Saudi Arabia to normalize relations with Israel — which may be exactly what they’re getting, e.g.: https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/10/14/saudi-arabia-puts-israel-deal-on-ice-amid-war-engages-with-iran-report
lol you’re aware Iran wants to erase Israel out of the map, right?
That’s not what I asked.
Isn’t this the plot to Arma 3? Does Iran have the East wind Device?!
🥱
This is the best summary I could come up with:
Israel has warned 1.1 million people living in the north of the enclave to evacuate ahead of an expected ground operation in Gaza with the IDF planning to strike the territory from land, sea and air.
Iran’s involvement could be through a militant group from Syria or by backing Hezbollah to join the conflict, diplomatic sources told Axios.
Mr Amirabdollahian said that he would be contacting UN officials in the region as “there is still an opportunity to work on an initiative (to end the war) but it might be too late tomorrow.”
More than 2,000 people have been killed in Hamas-controlled Gaza since Israel launched retaliatory airstrikes, the Palestinian health ministry said on Saturday.
Following the Hamas attacks, Israel announced a “complete siege” on the enclave and tens of thousands have now left their homes in Gaza to get away from the combat zone.
And on Saturday Israeli prime minister Benjamin Netanyahu told troops in southern Israel that “The next stage is coming”
The original article contains 447 words, the summary contains 164 words. Saved 63%. I’m a bot and I’m open source!
WW3 here we go
Nah, it’ll be more like Proxy War 37
Oh the rogue nation wants to play along? Isn’t supporting the Russians against my country enough?
Hm, Israel might be about to get more that it asked for…
They didn’t ask for this and it’s not like they’ll even respond to a threat this empty.
The topic of what they did and did not ask for can be discussed at long, to say the least.
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