The 8000 respondents, from 16 different countries, answered questions on what they thought about Hamas, their opinion on Iran and Western countries, and what actions were needed by Arab states.
To me, the crazy thing is that 33% of the Arab world doesn’t think it was legitimate resistance.
The October 7th attack was clearly terrorism. But to have such a big percentage of the Arab world seem to agree with that, even in such an insanely one-sided situation as the ongoing occupation of Gaza, means:
You shouldn’t take the actions of genocidal, colonizing settlers and generalize them to all Israelis. It’s completely incorrect to suggest that all Israelis want to exterminate the Palestinians. As small as they are, there are left wing groups that want to find reconciliation and cooperation. And plenty of youth have refused their compulsory service with the IDF.
It also makes no sense for the Israelis to think they’re superior to the Palestinians – only half of Israelis trace their ancestry from European Jews. The other half have the same ancestry as the Palestinians. They’re all semites.
You’re far too eager to condemn people by association, who may very well have the same beliefs as you. These are the same logical fallacies that lead to ubermensch beliefs in the first place.
I’m not disputing any of that. I’m just saying we shouldn’t tar Levy and the others with the same brush. And like you said, the people being killed by Hamas are not just the genocide supporters.
Think about how this conflict is going to end. When we look at the most likely outcomes:
Status quo continues, and just kicks the can back down the road until one of the other outcomes
Israeli completely genocides Palestinians and colonizes Gaza and West Bank on their bodies. Some survive as refugees, but most of them die. Hamas is mostly destroyed, but its rich leaders in the UAE and similar countries drink champagne and live it up just fine.
Enough Israelis vote for a left wing regime that seeks reconciliation, and recognizes they have to move past the history of violence for it to end.
Odds are, Israel is not going to be destroyed or ended. The best chance of peace relies on the Israelis who understand the power dynamic places the impetus on them to stop the violence. To that end, it’s unhelpful to blanket label all Israelis as genocide supporters. Because if that’s true, Palestine has no hope.
Do you believe it is realistic to achieve a situation like Nazi Germany, where several countries take control of the government and administer the area for a few decades? Without any subjugation, and with economic aid from the administering countries?
If you have a way to do that, I am genuinely interested in hearing it. As long as it seems unviable however, regime change is the best option. Netanyahu’s government failed to protect people from Hamas attack, kidnappings, and their own army killed Israelis. If there was ever a time to foment a change, it’s now.
Most Israelis agree with their governments crimes. Most Israelis are racist and supremacists. I recommend you listen to Gideon Levy here https://youtu.be/3EtNFXL_ykg
Even if so though, this just perpetuates the problem. This is why the conflict won’t stop.
Most of Group A thinks that most of Group B are supremacists, and condones the killing of B. The members of B who aren’t supremacists and are killed anyway by association see all of Group A as supremacists who want them dead, so they condone the killing of A, even those that disagree and don’t think that all of B are supremacists.
This isn’t going to stop until people see each other as individuals. They’ll create justifications to kill each other until one of them ceases to exist. It falls on Israel to seek reconciliation, or this violence is just going to keep going.
Just to be clear, we both agree that Israel is the one causing the problem here, and the one that holds all the cards.
And unless I’m mistaken, that peace initiative did have a prominent Israeli figure there supporting a two state solution, right? I thought this was when Netanyahu boosted Hamas initially to kill the two state talks and literally kill that Israeli negotiator.
My point is that we need Israelis like them. There can be no peaceful resolution unless Israelis want peace – or, at least, want the fighting to stop. That’s what happened with the Irish, isn’t it? They didn’t physically defeat the UK army.
Do you see what I’m saying? Even if most Israelis are supremacists, our enemy is not all Israelis. If we blindly kill people based on their countrymen the only solution left is total annihilation.
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." It is really up to Israel, and unfortunately every illegal settlement, every blockade, every arrest and assassination, is prove that they are forcing Palestinians to choose the latter.
Ideally there would be either a 2-state solution or a 1 democratic state for both people. Both scenarios are unpopular in Israel.
I think it is interesting how many people think there will ever be peace while Hamas is in charge, or that Hamas will ever let someone else be in charge.
Nobody in power ever “lets” someone else have it instead.
On the first part, I agree; both Likud and Hamas are hell-bent on this outcome. If only the one of them would stop giving the other money to keep them both going.
I actually hesitated to write what I wrote for that exact reason… but I decided that there’s enough implied threat of everyone else just removing you anyway and you looking stupid and maybe going to prison that you can’t actually call it “voluntary.” Trump tried his absolute very best to simply refuse to go along with the peaceful transition of power and he still got power-transitioned out.
I’m not necessarily disagreeing with you; I do think a lot of the theater of concession speeches and other trappings that go with peaceful transitions in countries far from Palestine is super important. But I think Trump actually did a pretty good job (so far, fingers crossed) at illustrating that it’s not really voluntary for the departing president to agree to leave.
To me, the crazy thing is that 33% of the Arab world doesn’t think it was legitimate resistance.
The October 7th attack was clearly terrorism. But to have such a big percentage of the Arab world seem to agree with that, even in such an insanely one-sided situation as the ongoing occupation of Gaza, means:
A lot of people want peace.
Everyone wants peace for themselves and their allies. What’s important is how many people want peace for the other guy too.
Well, but what I’m saying is that (edit:
calling it terrorism) saying it wasn’t legitimate is kind of wanting peace for the other guy too.I’d be surprised if 33% of Americans or Israelis thought that the invasion of Gaza was illegitimate. Maybe they would though, I honestly don’t know.
It’s all terrorism, all the way down. Israel throws a volley, then Hamas throws a volley, and so on. It’s depressing.
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You shouldn’t take the actions of genocidal, colonizing settlers and generalize them to all Israelis. It’s completely incorrect to suggest that all Israelis want to exterminate the Palestinians. As small as they are, there are left wing groups that want to find reconciliation and cooperation. And plenty of youth have refused their compulsory service with the IDF.
It also makes no sense for the Israelis to think they’re superior to the Palestinians – only half of Israelis trace their ancestry from European Jews. The other half have the same ancestry as the Palestinians. They’re all semites.
You’re far too eager to condemn people by association, who may very well have the same beliefs as you. These are the same logical fallacies that lead to ubermensch beliefs in the first place.
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I’m not disputing any of that. I’m just saying we shouldn’t tar Levy and the others with the same brush. And like you said, the people being killed by Hamas are not just the genocide supporters.
Think about how this conflict is going to end. When we look at the most likely outcomes:
Status quo continues, and just kicks the can back down the road until one of the other outcomes
Israeli completely genocides Palestinians and colonizes Gaza and West Bank on their bodies. Some survive as refugees, but most of them die. Hamas is mostly destroyed, but its rich leaders in the UAE and similar countries drink champagne and live it up just fine.
Enough Israelis vote for a left wing regime that seeks reconciliation, and recognizes they have to move past the history of violence for it to end.
Odds are, Israel is not going to be destroyed or ended. The best chance of peace relies on the Israelis who understand the power dynamic places the impetus on them to stop the violence. To that end, it’s unhelpful to blanket label all Israelis as genocide supporters. Because if that’s true, Palestine has no hope.
Removed by mod
Do you believe it is realistic to achieve a situation like Nazi Germany, where several countries take control of the government and administer the area for a few decades? Without any subjugation, and with economic aid from the administering countries?
If you have a way to do that, I am genuinely interested in hearing it. As long as it seems unviable however, regime change is the best option. Netanyahu’s government failed to protect people from Hamas attack, kidnappings, and their own army killed Israelis. If there was ever a time to foment a change, it’s now.
Most Israelis agree with their governments crimes. Most Israelis are racist and supremacists. I recommend you listen to Gideon Levy here https://youtu.be/3EtNFXL_ykg
Even if so though, this just perpetuates the problem. This is why the conflict won’t stop.
Most of Group A thinks that most of Group B are supremacists, and condones the killing of B. The members of B who aren’t supremacists and are killed anyway by association see all of Group A as supremacists who want them dead, so they condone the killing of A, even those that disagree and don’t think that all of B are supremacists.
This isn’t going to stop until people see each other as individuals. They’ll create justifications to kill each other until one of them ceases to exist. It falls on Israel to seek reconciliation, or this violence is just going to keep going.
There were multiple peace offers by the Arabs, such as the Arab Peace Initiative 22 years ago. Israel has always rejected a two-state solution.
Do you think the Irish should have given up on fighting for freedom?
Just to be clear, we both agree that Israel is the one causing the problem here, and the one that holds all the cards.
And unless I’m mistaken, that peace initiative did have a prominent Israeli figure there supporting a two state solution, right? I thought this was when Netanyahu boosted Hamas initially to kill the two state talks and literally kill that Israeli negotiator.
My point is that we need Israelis like them. There can be no peaceful resolution unless Israelis want peace – or, at least, want the fighting to stop. That’s what happened with the Irish, isn’t it? They didn’t physically defeat the UK army.
Do you see what I’m saying? Even if most Israelis are supremacists, our enemy is not all Israelis. If we blindly kill people based on their countrymen the only solution left is total annihilation.
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." It is really up to Israel, and unfortunately every illegal settlement, every blockade, every arrest and assassination, is prove that they are forcing Palestinians to choose the latter.
Ideally there would be either a 2-state solution or a 1 democratic state for both people. Both scenarios are unpopular in Israel.
I think it is interesting how many people think there will ever be peace while Hamas is in charge, or that Hamas will ever let someone else be in charge.
Nobody in power ever “lets” someone else have it instead.
On the first part, I agree; both Likud and Hamas are hell-bent on this outcome. If only the one of them would stop giving the other money to keep them both going.
Peaceful transition of power is a cornerstone of democracies
I actually hesitated to write what I wrote for that exact reason… but I decided that there’s enough implied threat of everyone else just removing you anyway and you looking stupid and maybe going to prison that you can’t actually call it “voluntary.” Trump tried his absolute very best to simply refuse to go along with the peaceful transition of power and he still got power-transitioned out.
I’m not necessarily disagreeing with you; I do think a lot of the theater of concession speeches and other trappings that go with peaceful transitions in countries far from Palestine is super important. But I think Trump actually did a pretty good job (so far, fingers crossed) at illustrating that it’s not really voluntary for the departing president to agree to leave.
Yes tell us what we want. تهريج 🤡