I am pro basic human decency, I just wish more online leftists realize you get things done with a big tent. Perfect is the enemy of good.
Fred Hampton wasn’t killed by the FBI because he had the most stringent purity tests, he was killed cause he was able to convince a lot of people to come under his tent to fight for workers.
Or, you know, it could turn someone away who is honestly ignorant and curious to learn more. But keep being a condescending piece of shit, that’ll work out great.
I think you just hit the nail right on the head there. One of the drawbacks to success is danger. If a person wants to be safe, it’s better to choose ineffective strategies that keep them
in the same place.
Personally, I’ve had comments I’ve posted on lemmy.ml deleted for “bigotry” for saying Iran supports Hamas which is an objective fact. It wasn’t even a commentary on policy but I’m still a bigot somehow.
I mean, shit, you even implied I am an enemy of basic human decency for making a mild criticism in a meme sub.
Realistically they’re generally anti-anyone that disagrees with them. Not just of anarchists, or actual communists for that matter. They just tend to hate anarchists and real communists more. Because they know and can articulate where the bodies are buried better than most others so to speak.
Yeah I’ve started unfollowing .ml communities because I’ve found it’s just not worth contributing. I have an alt on dbzero’s instance that I’ve found much better.
ML aren’t communist. Communist dislike them as well. I absolutely understand people not wanting to deal with ML though. They’re often just as bad as hard core capitalists. But don’t blame communists just because others missuse the noun, while not bothering with the actual ideology. Actual communists are pretty chill and generally your friend.
I dunno. I get spicy over there sometimes. Had a number of comments deleted etc. Though not been banned. I would barely notice if I was if it weren’t for an open source project or two having official communities over there for some reason. Hell half the time I only realize I was there after the fact. And while I agree that meme posting/shit posting is childish and unproductive. I’m thinking you might’ve given them reason to ban.
Hamas is a problem too and funded through Iran so I think they’d still be an issue even without the settler bs
This is the comment I was referencing. There’s some other comments that have been deleted on .ml which I find fair cause a couple were needlessly agressive when I was having a bad day. I see 9 mod/admin actions against my account on .ml. Can’t speak to why you can’t find it, they’re on there.
I’ve seen older people be cancelled or called fascists over the use of outdated words like ‘transgendered’, without even an explanation. Obviously, that word is now deprecated and considered a pejorative, but it used to be commonly accepted word and was even used within the community.
I’ve had people call me sexist, because I was critical of Mattel’s motives when making the Barbie movie. Mattel is a company run by a man, with an abysmal record on how they treat their (female) employees, and Barbie negatively damages girls’ body image.
I’ve also had people reply to comments in which I paraphrased or literally quoted feminist thinkers like Dworkin, of mansplaining or not being able to understand sexism because I lacked ‘lived experience’. It’s not a coincidence that plenty of left-wing feminists, were easy prey for right wing ideology and are now virulent transphobes. Eg. JK Rowling.
Being balanced or even slightly nuanced on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, is also likely to result in you getting piled on in some terminally online left wing spaces, where people have gone to the other extreme and now seemingly implicitly or explictly support Hamas/Iran. Same thing for Russia/Ukraine.
You also just accused someone of lacking basic human decency, for criticizing what they perceived as the excesses of online leftists.
You say you’ve had people do these things, but I suspect you’ve had either bots or foreign agents do these things.
And a few suggestible people who actually do take on those behaviors.
Gotta remember there are people heavily invested in the US going down. The US hasn’t had a ground invasion, but we’ve definitely had a social media invasion.
Gun ownership. Leftist groups NEED gun owners, but will turn their nose up at them and call them Nazi’s.
The most amazing thing gun culture in the US did was get liberals to disarms themselves willingly by falsely associating gun ownership with toxic masculinity and conservative values.
Gun ownership. Leftist groups NEED gun owners, but will turn their nose up at them and call them Nazi’s.
Not if they are far enough left (as you allude to) or otherwise practically minded, I’ve found. We are few but we are out there. Self defense is an intrinsic right of living beings, period, the end.
I can understand what they’re saying. You expect hateful shit from the right-wing assholes, and fighting against their bullshit is a worthy cause.
But the left is prickly, including to its allies. Hell, especially to its allies. And it is so much more exhausting when it is coming from your own side.
As an example, when Lil Nas X was accused of faking being gay for, I guess money, or pushing some agenda, he said “I just like dick” and that there’s nothing deep to it. People started attacking him for “trans erasure” and such nonsense. The man didn’t say he likes all dick, and I’m sure if it were attached to a woman, he wouldn’t be about it (and if there was a man without one, he presumably also would not be interested). It was a toss away comment that is easily understood in the context, and people felt the need to attack him for it. It should not bear this level of analysis and scrutiny, but here we are.
It’s also a million times worse online, which was the OPs point. I’m a pinko commie by American standards, and I’ve been called a secret conservative online or downvoted to oblivion for daring to suggest that landlords should exist. The downvotes above just show how prickly and “no true leftist” some people are.
I’m not him, but the justification I’ve seen in the past is that some people move to different locations every few months to pursue work or they’re in an area temporarily for studies and don’t want to be permanently tied down. It was something along those lines. Even if that does justify the existence of *some* landlords, it doesn’t justify such a huge supermajority of housing being owned by them.
This happens, there is a lot of liberal left that believes that representation and words can shape the reality. But there is a lot of bad will from OP to generalize it
The purity tests usually come from leftist adjacent groups that actually have nothing to do with left wing ideology. Read Tankies and some extremely small groups of vegans (Most are fine). They for some reason love telling you “Lefties who aren’t [INSERT THING HERE] are hypocritical and not real leftists”
Really it’s a huge nothing burger complaining about silly people on twitter and Reddit who ultimately do not matter.
Then you lack actual understanding of who leftist are and what they want. Which isn’t an attack against you or anything. Most people in Western societies have been mentally conditioned not. Including myself for the first 30 or so years of my life.
For example, in the United States, Nancy pelosi gets treated as a leftist simply because she’s a Democrat. Despite being pretty far right. All because she’s slightly to the left of fascists in the Republican party. And granted she is socially more tolerant than Republicans. And while social tolerance is good. Social tolerance does not a leftist make. You can be a socially tolerant capitalist, or a bigoted socialist.
Actual leftists don’t seek to be rich. And the further left you go the less likely to be rich in capitalist terms, you are. Leftist derive their wealth from a well functioning society.
Not necessarily. It’s that we tend to look in the wrong places and scales. And even then, because of how violent and oppressive capitalism and Leninism can be to perceived threats. Such groups tend not to advertise their existence.
They do matter. If they didn’t countries like Russia wouldn’t spend so much targetting them with propaganda and pushing them not to vote or vote against admittedly flawed left of centre parties.
You mean basic human decency?
Like, can you give one example of what you’re complaining about as an unrealistic standard?
I am pro basic human decency, I just wish more online leftists realize you get things done with a big tent. Perfect is the enemy of good.
Fred Hampton wasn’t killed by the FBI because he had the most stringent purity tests, he was killed cause he was able to convince a lot of people to come under his tent to fight for workers.
I mean… that’s most of us. Don’t confuse the loud obnoxious minority with reality.
I agree with that, but it pisses me off because the loud obnoxious folks repel new people.
If all it takes is loud and obnoxious to turn you away from your convictions then they weren’t very strong to begin with.
We don’t get turned from our convictions. We get turned away from communities we hoped to join to help us enact those convictions.
So you cut your nose to spite your face? Seems counterintuitive.
Or, you know, it could turn someone away who is honestly ignorant and curious to learn more. But keep being a condescending piece of shit, that’ll work out great.
You’re reading into my comment too far. I just said I find it annoying and counterproductive, I didn’t say I’ve changed my convictions.
I think you just hit the nail right on the head there. One of the drawbacks to success is danger. If a person wants to be safe, it’s better to choose ineffective strategies that keep them in the same place.
So…
Does that mean you can’t give a single example of what your complaining about?
Personally, I’ve had comments I’ve posted on lemmy.ml deleted for “bigotry” for saying Iran supports Hamas which is an objective fact. It wasn’t even a commentary on policy but I’m still a bigot somehow.
I mean, shit, you even implied I am an enemy of basic human decency for making a mild criticism in a meme sub.
Your first mistake was being active on the .ml instance which generally has been anti-anarchist
Realistically they’re generally anti-anyone that disagrees with them. Not just of anarchists, or actual communists for that matter. They just tend to hate anarchists and real communists more. Because they know and can articulate where the bodies are buried better than most others so to speak.
Yeah I’ve started unfollowing .ml communities because I’ve found it’s just not worth contributing. I have an alt on dbzero’s instance that I’ve found much better.
I’ve got the entire instance blocked from all my feeds. Same with the other communist-friendly shitholes.
ML aren’t communist. Communist dislike them as well. I absolutely understand people not wanting to deal with ML though. They’re often just as bad as hard core capitalists. But don’t blame communists just because others missuse the noun, while not bothering with the actual ideology. Actual communists are pretty chill and generally your friend.
deleted by creator
At some point you hit the no true Scotsman fallacy though
I had an account full-on banned from that shithole for saying that the memes people use to respond to comments there are childish and cringy.
I dunno. I get spicy over there sometimes. Had a number of comments deleted etc. Though not been banned. I would barely notice if I was if it weren’t for an open source project or two having official communities over there for some reason. Hell half the time I only realize I was there after the fact. And while I agree that meme posting/shit posting is childish and unproductive. I’m thinking you might’ve given them reason to ban.
…
I checked the modlog because it takes two seconds, and your account name doesn’t seem to be in there?
I expected to see you misrepresenting what you said, but it looks like it was just all made up?
Unless that instance is set up differently, maybe if you gave me the sub I can find it?
This is the comment I was referencing. There’s some other comments that have been deleted on .ml which I find fair cause a couple were needlessly agressive when I was having a bad day. I see 9 mod/admin actions against my account on .ml. Can’t speak to why you can’t find it, they’re on there.
You keep replying but you never give real answers to questions…
I just don’t give enough of a shit about this to keep going or to get roped into this again with you later.
I gave you the verbatim comment that was deleted, pulled directly from Lemmy.ml’s modlog
Let the record reflect the witness refused to cooperate
You just got schooled in how wrong you were, and you’re just showing that you’re the exact person we’re talking about.
I’ve seen older people be cancelled or called fascists over the use of outdated words like ‘transgendered’, without even an explanation. Obviously, that word is now deprecated and considered a pejorative, but it used to be commonly accepted word and was even used within the community.
I’ve had people call me sexist, because I was critical of Mattel’s motives when making the Barbie movie. Mattel is a company run by a man, with an abysmal record on how they treat their (female) employees, and Barbie negatively damages girls’ body image.
I’ve also had people reply to comments in which I paraphrased or literally quoted feminist thinkers like Dworkin, of mansplaining or not being able to understand sexism because I lacked ‘lived experience’. It’s not a coincidence that plenty of left-wing feminists, were easy prey for right wing ideology and are now virulent transphobes. Eg. JK Rowling.
Being balanced or even slightly nuanced on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, is also likely to result in you getting piled on in some terminally online left wing spaces, where people have gone to the other extreme and now seemingly implicitly or explictly support Hamas/Iran. Same thing for Russia/Ukraine.
You also just accused someone of lacking basic human decency, for criticizing what they perceived as the excesses of online leftists.
This was my first thought when reading that comment… smh
It’s painfully un-self-aware.
The point about the Mattel CEO was literally a joke in the movie. The director clearly agreed with you.
Also: Mattel execs are on record as saying the Barbie movie isn’t feminist. Presumably they don’t want to annoy right wing and non-western audiences too much.
Don’t get me wrong, fun movie. But there are plenty of reasons to be sceptical of its feminist credentials.
But hey, what do I know. I’m just Ken.
You say you’ve had people do these things, but I suspect you’ve had either bots or foreign agents do these things.
And a few suggestible people who actually do take on those behaviors.
Gotta remember there are people heavily invested in the US going down. The US hasn’t had a ground invasion, but we’ve definitely had a social media invasion.
Gun ownership. Leftist groups NEED gun owners, but will turn their nose up at them and call them Nazi’s.
The most amazing thing gun culture in the US did was get liberals to disarms themselves willingly by falsely associating gun ownership with toxic masculinity and conservative values.
Read Marx. Acquire guns.
Not if they are far enough left (as you allude to) or otherwise practically minded, I’ve found. We are few but we are out there. Self defense is an intrinsic right of living beings, period, the end.
I can understand what they’re saying. You expect hateful shit from the right-wing assholes, and fighting against their bullshit is a worthy cause.
But the left is prickly, including to its allies. Hell, especially to its allies. And it is so much more exhausting when it is coming from your own side.
As an example, when Lil Nas X was accused of faking being gay for, I guess money, or pushing some agenda, he said “I just like dick” and that there’s nothing deep to it. People started attacking him for “trans erasure” and such nonsense. The man didn’t say he likes all dick, and I’m sure if it were attached to a woman, he wouldn’t be about it (and if there was a man without one, he presumably also would not be interested). It was a toss away comment that is easily understood in the context, and people felt the need to attack him for it. It should not bear this level of analysis and scrutiny, but here we are.
It’s also a million times worse online, which was the OPs point. I’m a pinko commie by American standards, and I’ve been called a secret conservative online or downvoted to oblivion for daring to suggest that landlords should exist. The downvotes above just show how prickly and “no true leftist” some people are.
Why exactly do you think landlord should exist?
As an actual communist, I think that’s a weird stance.
I’m not him, but the justification I’ve seen in the past is that some people move to different locations every few months to pursue work or they’re in an area temporarily for studies and don’t want to be permanently tied down. It was something along those lines. Even if that does justify the existence of *some* landlords, it doesn’t justify such a huge supermajority of housing being owned by them.
Nah man. Left isn’t just prickly. 100% of the comments I’ve ever seen calling for death and mistreatment of people have been from the left.
Maybe it’s going on in some right wing cesspit somewhere, but not here in public.
I just started saving them recently, so my collection is small but here’s one: https://lemmy.ca/comment/6580270
I see a few a day, and I intend to keep saving them. As time goes on, I’ll have a longer and longer list.
That comment was not directed at a person. It was directed at a billionaire. Those creatures are superhuman, and it is our moral duty to purge them.
This happens, there is a lot of liberal left that believes that representation and words can shape the reality. But there is a lot of bad will from OP to generalize it
The purity tests usually come from leftist adjacent groups that actually have nothing to do with left wing ideology. Read Tankies and some extremely small groups of vegans (Most are fine). They for some reason love telling you “Lefties who aren’t [INSERT THING HERE] are hypocritical and not real leftists”
Really it’s a huge nothing burger complaining about silly people on twitter and Reddit who ultimately do not matter.
They matter because they’re loud and given attention.
Being loud and given attention, they can be the only example of “leftists” some people knowingly interact with.
Yep, it serves the wealthy well for people like them to be the things people visualize when they picture “the left”.
I picture the left as rich leftists who are evil, and poor leftists who are naive.
And yes, I’m aware the left sees us that way too.
Then you lack actual understanding of who leftist are and what they want. Which isn’t an attack against you or anything. Most people in Western societies have been mentally conditioned not. Including myself for the first 30 or so years of my life.
For example, in the United States, Nancy pelosi gets treated as a leftist simply because she’s a Democrat. Despite being pretty far right. All because she’s slightly to the left of fascists in the Republican party. And granted she is socially more tolerant than Republicans. And while social tolerance is good. Social tolerance does not a leftist make. You can be a socially tolerant capitalist, or a bigoted socialist.
Actual leftists don’t seek to be rich. And the further left you go the less likely to be rich in capitalist terms, you are. Leftist derive their wealth from a well functioning society.
See to me it is just about smoothing out the extremes.
We don’t get rich, but no one is poor.
But like communism, it sounds great on paper, but real life examples of success are lacking
Not necessarily. It’s that we tend to look in the wrong places and scales. And even then, because of how violent and oppressive capitalism and Leninism can be to perceived threats. Such groups tend not to advertise their existence.
They do matter. If they didn’t countries like Russia wouldn’t spend so much targetting them with propaganda and pushing them not to vote or vote against admittedly flawed left of centre parties.
Ahhh, the purity test starts.