Jews in Israel and internationally, please Stand up to your government. You know this is wrong. Kill the babies? Listen to what they are saying.
Your government is fucked up. You have let fear and revenge drive your country to madness. Look in your hearts, would a loving and just God want this? I don’t care what any book says, look in your heart. You know this is wrong.
Every western government has been complicit in this genocide. USA most of all. None of this could have occurred had it not been for the funding and the diplomatic cover provided by our governments. It’s up to all of us to make it stop.
Lets not include Spain and the Republic of Ireland on it, who have even tried to get the EU to sanction Israel for this.
But yeah, the rest are a disgrace, after the US especially Germany, who once again because of the etnicity of the aggressors, unwaveringly supports their committing of genocide along etnic lines and were the political and media “elites” even deploy Goebbels-style propaganda on this against its own populations. It was pretty dissapointing for me to see that whilst the national socialist party of the german worker is gone (though at the hands of others, not because it was kicked out by the Germans themselves), their cold violent racist ways are alive and well, at least amongst the German “elites”.
Oh yeah? Pray tell, how do we do that? And mind you, you’ve also got Iran in play, Egypt is doing its thing, and they would both react in their own way.
Like would you suggest NATO troops on the ground? How do you think Hamas would react to that?
What tactics has the West utilized against Russia that they have not employed against Israel?
Economic sanctions. Apply them to Israeli leadership in the military and in politics. Plus Business leaders and bankers. Prevent Israeli banking institutions “from accessing SWIFT, the international system for financial transactions, and restricting access to Western financial markets.” Ban Israeli access to international goods and services import as well as export. Let’s see how long their military can go without oil.
Well, I think the US public has been pretty vocal about this compared to most issues. People are really pissed at Biden. So don’t change the subject.
I think it’s time we start publicly shaming Israelis and Jews who don’t make strong statements condemning the murder of civilians and protesting the reckless-at-best and seemingly genocidal actions of their government.
publicly shaming Israelis and Jews
This is about Zionism. It’s not about Jews. If you make it about Jews you are falling for the Zionist tactic of equating the two. Do better
Really I just meant the international community of Jewish people. Many of them have strong opinions about matters related to Israel.
As a member of the international community of Jews, I think what Israel is doing is monstrous and disgusting. But I am in no way responsible for what they do. I don’t live there, I’ve never been there, and I have zero ability to influence Israeli policy beyond expressing my disapproval, which I often do.
Stop spreading the misinformation that Israel = all Jews.
I understand your frustration at what I am saying, but I believe you have more influence over the Israeli people than I do as a non-jew. Am I wrong? I just imagine that Israeli jews would take more seriously and be more introspective after receiving critical comments from a fellow Jewish person, who presumably is more in tune with the worries and historical context of the Jewish community than a non Jewish person is.
My opinion is more easily decried as antisemitic or ignorant and waved away. Yours is not.
When Christians do horrible things in the name of god, don’t you think being called out by other Christians is going to carry some more weight?
What would make you think this? Just because we happen to share an ethnicity doesn’t mean an entire nation will listen to me or give me any entitlement to tell them what to do. Nor is it my responsibility, as a Jew.
And people who make decisions based on ancient mythology aren’t exactly making rational decisions in the first place, so I don’t know why an appeal on that basis would work. I may be a Jew, but I’m also an atheist. The last thing this situation needs is more religion.
I think it’s time we start publicly shaming Israelis and Jews who don’t make strong statements condemning the murder of civilians and protesting the reckless-at-best and seemingly genocidal actions of their government.
Are you deliberately trying to use the same language as was used against Muslims 20 years ago?
No, I guess I don’t get your reference, unless you are referring to 911?
If so it would be the Americans needing to condemn their government for invading Iraq, not the Muslims condemning 911.
Not exactly like every Jew is Israeli, in fact Israel is the one trying to force the narrative that they are, because it reinforces that narrative to those Jews when people actually do antisemitic shit
It’s a settler recruitment strategy.
Not to mention the view that being anti-genocide is antisemitic - a deeply stupid, dishonest, antisemitic position that gives the best possible justification one could give for the extermination of the Jews.
and internationally
Jewish people have nothing to do with Israel. There is no greater burden on them than us
Perfect example of the antisemitism channeled by this war…
Same kind of bullshit of asking a random Muslim on the street to denounce IS when they bombed something…
Exactly.
Is that guy part of the government?
“But if you call it a genocide you’re an antisemite.”
-AIPAC
If it came from an arab or muslim religious figure, western media mainstream media wouldn’t shut up about it for weeks. but an Israeli figure calling for extermination of an entire ethnic group passes under their radar and keep giving moral and legal ammunition to Israel to carry on its genocide in Gaza.
Really? Because searching with the roles reversed I definitely see similar statements had been made but only see coverage by ideologically aligned sites:
https://m.jpost.com/diaspora/antisemitism/article-787452
https://www.timesofisrael.com/egyptian-minister-quotes-koran-verse-on-killing-jews/
https://m.jpost.com/Arab-Israeli-Conflict/California-Imam-calls-on-Allah-to-annihilate-Jews-500676.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/kill-all-jews-urges-hamas-tv-host/
The only mainstream sources along a similar thread were within days of the Oct 7th attack:
So it just looks more like the mainstream press isn’t interested in reporting what religious zealots say outside of very narrow windows of relevance to major recent news stories (and even then rather sparingly).
They are turning into Nazis arent they? And i thought iron sky was far fetched. Instead, the Nazis have just infested the Jews!
The irony is ridiculous
Ah yes, genocidal fascism reappears. Marvellous. (Not)
People calling for genocide and murder of children are those who are far removed from humanity. They’re a nasty burden that the modern society hasn’t learned to deal with yet.
Oh we know how to deal with it, the problem is such psychopaths have a tendency to climb power structures easily to protect themselves from consequences.
There no hate speech laws this breaks? He’s literally calling for violence on a group of people.
Israeli laws outlaws hate speech and “expressing support for illegal or terrorist organizations”.[9] Section 173 of the legal code makes it a crime to publish any “publication that is liable to crudely offend the religious faith or sentiment of others.”[29]
According to Wikipedia. The problem, of course, is that it won’t be enforced as long as hate speech is directed against specific groups of people.
…or spoken by other specific groups of people.
A few guys saying similar things got jailed and busted as a terrorist organization in the 90s, the thing is - Israeli institutions have degraded a lot. They have bloodthirsty imbeciles at helm.
Lmao, not where Palestinians are concerned. Welcome to Apartheid.
Haven’t you heard? All Palestinians are terrorists so this is fine.
Yes, even the babies. Actually especially the babies. /s
Man if every one in the world judged every American based on what one crazy preacher said we’d be in some trouble.
Well, the prime minister, the finance minister and the head of defense all have said similar things over there in Israel. At some point you have to believe that what they are saying and their actions are speaking for themselves and their words and actions are saying “no one is innocent and even if they were we are still going to kill them all so we can get the land.”
I mean, it’s kinda like judging America based on Pat Robertson, the Westboro Baptist Church, Steve Bannon, Steve Miller, and Trump.
Yes, we should beleive people like Trump when they say how awful they are. The fact that he was elected and is the presumptive Republican nominee says a lot about the American right, right now. But it definitely doesn’t mean that Americans in general are awful people.
Are these people:
Pat Robertson, the Westboro Baptist Church, Steve Bannon, Steve Miller, and Trump.
Currently in charge?
Because Ben Gvir, Smotrich, and Bibi Netanyahu are all literally in charge of the country commiting genocide right now.
What’s the purpose of that “currently”? Because if you meant that what’s in the past is less real, it’s not. Just removed from us by one coordinate.
It means there was a majority of people who decided these people shouldn’t be in charge after witnessing what they did when they were in charge?
That wasn’t the case when they were in charge, obviously.
Their party is about to get shit canned, because Israel is a democracy and these people don’t represent the people.
Israel is a democracy despite that almost everyone who has power in the government is a racist genocidal maniac?
There’s no democracy in MENA.
Rabbi Eliyahu Mali and his Yeshiva are sponsored by Benjamin Netanyahu’s government
I’m guessing you’ve never seen CPAC.
Yeah, although if the American state were sponsoring said crazy preacher it would be an issue. The Rabbi and his Yashiva are sponsored by the Israeli government as the article makes clear.
I don’t know if you haven’t been paying attention to Mike Johnson and some of the Republicans lately but well…
No but most Americans feel free to judge me on my religion based on what a handful of crazy preachers say.
Yeah the problem there is the word handful.
In what way aren’t the crazy preachers representative of a massive segment of the population here?
I gave you the grand old party.
I never understood why some people would say it was anti semitic to criticize Israel in certain ways, like people say the BDS movement is racist, but it’s exactly things such as this that made me start to see it, and now I can’t unsee it. People rabidly hold Israel to a different standard and only one explanation consistently makes sense.
One Jewish nutbag bloviating his hatred into the void is asserted by some as evidence the the whole of Israel has evil, genocidal intent.
Targeted bombings of tunnels, valid military targets, with cell phone warnings, pamphleting, and roof knocking is described as indiscriminate.
Not giving foreigners the same rights as natively born or naturalized citizens is called literal “apartheid.”
Israel must stop bombing immediately or America should burn our alliance and feed the Jews to Iran, only Israel though, for Hamas it’s all “keep up the good work! Death to America!”
Palestinians in Gaza are natively born. They are not foreigners.
Fucking thank you, I am so tired of people marginalizing already heavily oppressed victims.
Gazans aren’t foreign dumbass
Dumbass they are to Israel.
This is a Jewish Israeli extremist. Dont judge all of us based on this abhorrent example.
This is a Jewish Israeli extremist.
… who teaches at a yeshiva that gets its funding from the Israeli government… guess he’s not so extreme he can’t get government funding. Embarrassing. Even in the relatively thoughtless USA we would cancel that sponsorship in a second.
Do Israeli institutions not have mechanisms to dismiss officials who vocalize rhetoric like this?
Sure they do, but do they want to is the real question.
No clue. I’m just pointing out the existing association. He could be 1 in 1000 or he could be in 1 in 4.
In my experience 1 in 4
They have mechanisms to dismiss the rest
Actually those yeshivas to get funding from Israeli government are more likely to be extremist.
Israeli democracy often resembles more of a Jewish “theocracy” I say that as a former Israeli voter. There is a huge coalition of religious politicians that work together to keep money flowing to the orthodox haredi voters whonare invaluable to them.
(x)
I have taken pains to point out that Zionism does not equate Judaism. Three of the men from whom I have learned the most about this conflict are all Jewish, Noam Chomsky, Norman Finkelstein and Ilan Pappé.
It’d be like asking Hamas the same question, clearly we shouldn’t judge the Palestinian innocents on Hamas’ views, nor should we judge Israel on this guys views
I’ll judge Israelis on the actions and words of their representatives and armes forces.
Doesn’t seem that much different to this extremist.
Majority held views among the population are in support of Gazan genocide and withholding all food from entering Gaza. The settler society at all levels understands its interests demand genocide.
Exactly my point, this extremist does speak for the majority.
No judgement to you all from me. War is a conductive environment for extremism. War is hell, after all.
Don’t worry, we’re judging you (Israel) by your actions, which… checks notes… are in full alignment
He is not just an extremist but also an Idiot.
Killing everyone in Gaza is just dumb because there are also several 10.000 Israeli soldiers in Gaza.
But meh… we already learned that extremism breads brain rot. Hamas is proof of it.
Crass
Drax? Is that you?
Ok, well if that’s the case what is your community going to do to ensure he does not receive support from you, and that he can not recruit from within you, and that your community does not produce more extremists like him?
Usually in this type of situation the answer is to act outraged on social media.
Not the OP, but sadly, the israeli state has a vested interest in supporting rabbis like him who act as an arm of extreme statist propaganda.
Even though the “disciples” of these kinds of rhetoric are not likely to serve in the military, they will egg on the existing population and do their spiel of making bullshit stories up.
And while I’d love to be in a position to go all “not all of us are like that”, and while I’m aware there are some Israelis who fight to get food in gaza, my entire family and most of my friends and colleagues spout this kind of extreme rhetoric, and i honestly feel like I’m slowly losing my mind over it.
There is not much willing in any community, and not much hope anything will change internally for the time being.
Most of my family believes similarly to this Rabbi. I feel like if I try to defend the Palestinians or put an ounce of blame on the Israeli occupation I’ll be excommunicated.
I instead try to teach the undecided, usually the ones who have been ignorant to the situation or those who haven’t yet “taken a side”. I grew up in an orthodox Jewish settlement on the west bank so I belibe I can speak with some amount of authority.
Your situation sounds pretty miserable and you do have my sympathy.
I’m naive to the nuance of the Israel / Gaza / extremist situation. My comment was just a tongue in cheek commentary on the nature of ideologies and extremism.
Ideologies tend to attract and / or produce nutters, provide them succour, but then disclaim their behaviours.
And more importantly, is it ok if we carpetbomb his neighbourhood?
Really making that ICJ genocide case easy huh.
Yeah they have a fair history becoming the thing they fought against.
If suffering was a teacher, humanity would have achieved utopia long ago.
I think we’d all just really hate school.
How do you mean?
Every firstborn son in Egypt will die, from the firstborn son of Pharaoh, who sits on the throne, to the firstborn of the slave girl, who is at her hand mill, and all the firstborn of the cattle as well.
You seem to be so enthusiastic about demonizing Jews that you even ignore that this is a story about enslaved people trying to leave.
I think people working on plantations from dawn to sunset till they can work no more would identify quite a lot with this passage.
Oh , the irony.
There can’t possibly be any irony, since I’ve explicitly said “Jews” and not Israelis.
Your attempts to blend in with normal people are, of course, disgusting, but also as subtle as a Nigerian spy in Siberia.
Judges 19 to 21, where after the rape and death of a single person, many thousands are killed, and hundreds more are raped in response.
Sounds like terrorism
Sounds like genocide
No need to call for it, they are already doing it.
straight from the book of joahua in the old testament
Here is a list of the killings in Joshua.
The Jericho Massacre
Achan and his family are stoned and burned to death
The Ai Massacre
God stops the sun so that Joshua can get his killing done in the daylight
Five kings are killed and hung on trees
Joshua utterly destroyed all that breathed as the Lord God commanded
The genocide of twenty kingdoms
The Anakim: Some more giant killing
thanks God
To be fair to the old testament it’s not factual history. Those no proof of a Unified Kingdom of Israel and no proof for any of Joshua’s conquests. Even though we have evidence of much older kingdoms in the area such as Yamhad.
If anything the old testament has history reversed. In 722 BC the Assyrians destroy Israel (circa 1000 BC with capital always in Shechem). The refugees move to Judah (circa 900 BC). The Israelites took their religion and rebased it on Jerusalem AFTER Israel got sacked. This means a “Jewish” identity for Israel could not have taken off until the 600 BCs at the earliest. 4000 years of Judaism history my 🍑.
Maccabee came in the 200 BCs and forced people into what we now call Judaism. The reason why a complete Bible cannot be found from the BC era is because the Bible wasn’t finished yet.
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The oldest fragment of the old testament says that the mountain around Shechem is the holy place.
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The Bible says that a lot of the Judahites were bad but all of the Samaritans are bad.
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The book of Joshua is archeologically completely anachronistic and false in the Southern Levant.
The early Israelites have only been found to have been peacefully cohabitating with the Canaanites and Philistines in the early Iron Age after they emerged as a population.
Personally, I think like a number of the pre-Judahite stories, that this was coming from an Aegean/Anatolian sea peoples forced relocation into the Southern Levant that ends up absorbed into the Israelite history.
‘Yeshua’ in Greek can go as either Jesus or Jason.
The Argonauts allegedly had a prophet Mopsus that died in the desert as they traveled by foot from a conflict in North Africa (not long before one of their elite warriors was killed by a shepherd casting a stone from a sling, actually).
There’s no walls at the Biblical Jericho at the time these events were supposedly taking place, but Mycenae around 1200 BCE has its walls fall down (and it seems not to have been an earthquake, which was a recent surprise).
There’s no evidence of the Israelites being a bunch of tribes conquering nearby cities and certainly not several across an ancestral homeland, but the sea peoples were a confederation of different tribes conquering their various home cities (at a time of various natural disasters were conveniently undermining powerful kingdoms, which was likely a factor in why they were so successful and why this period ends up mythologized with divine interventions).
At one of those battles the sea people were described as being without foreskins. This seems to be the same one day battle against Egypt that Odysseus claimed to have fought right at after the Trojan war.
The parallels get really incredible when you dive deeper into some of them. The recent Aegean style pottery made with local clay in Tel Dan, the only apiary in the “land of milk and honey” importing bees from Anatolia and worshipping an unknown bee goddess, and the song of Deborah (‘bee’), prophet and leader of the Israelites, talking about “Dan stayed on their ships” is super fucking interesting for example.
I think a lot of what we think we know about the Mediterranean at the fall of the Bronze Age is due to be turned on its head as the historians of antiquity like Herodotus, Hecateus of Adbera, Atrapanus of Alexandria, Tacitus, and Manetho end up validated with a number of things modern historians have been making fun of with an air of superiority (bizarre given the relative access to documentary and oral traditions and the relationship of that to the likely impacts of survivorship bias).
Or maybe not. There are a lot of weasel words in your write up, seems, alleged, etc, and not many mentions of hard evidence.
It’s a summary of around five years of sometimes rather nuanced research.
If there’s a particular area you want more details on, feel free to ask. But to actually include all the nuanced details for the summary above would take about 20 pages, and I really don’t think most people here care enough to wade through all that (nor do I care to write all that out on my weekend).
If you want a third party suggesting at least part of what I wrote above with some of the cited literature, you might want to read over this: https://armstronginstitute.org/736-were-the-seafaring-denyen-the-tribe-of-dan
You need hard evidence for events that were essentially before the beginning of written history, but apparently this isn’t necessary for their assertions. Weasel words, indeed.
Huh? Written history begins around 2,000 years before these events. What are you talking about?
A number of the relevant pieces of information are the details in contemporary written accounts from Egyptian or Hittite sources which range from royal records of conflicts to letters written between countries.
That’s how we know for example that there was actually a single day battle between Egypt and the sea peoples with Libya which Egypt wins and takes captives from seven years before an usurper Pharoh conquered Egypt. There’s literally dozens of pages written about that battle by Merneptah. Which then bears a striking resemblance to the mythical story in the Odyssey of Odysseus fighting a one day battle against Egypt where he’s taken captive exactly seven years before “a certain Phrygian” shows up to try to ransom him to Libya.
We even have records from Ramses III which describe the end of the 19th dynasty around the time of this usurper as Egypt having been conquered with outside help, switching to a form of government of city state governors, and “making the gods like men.” Claims that resemble the Phoenician form of city state government emerging at this time and the claims of Phoenician euhemerism “from around the time of the Trojan War” in Philio of Byblos.
Yeah, but it’s pretty shit. It’s far from reliable, the Bible counts as part of the historical record and we are reasonably sure there weren’t really any giants.
The rest is all Biblio of Biblios, I’m now aware what me rattling off a bunch of science information must sound like to people.
I was supporting your position anyway, you massive, swinging autist.
Why is it that followers of holy books always have a section or two that should be ignored when it’s convenient?
‘the word of God’, but you can toss out whole sections without a second thought, meanwhile, if you break what’s said in the other section you’re definitely evil
because religion is fake
Apostasy. The religion of Judaism abhors murder. That Rabbi should be defrocked.
Are rabbis even frocked?
It you frock one
degloved
defenestrated
No it doesnt.
