Egyptian and US mediators have reported signs of compromise in recent days and Egyptian state news channel Al-Qahera said on Saturday that a consensus had been reached in the indirect talks over many of the disputed points but gave no further details. However, many analysts remain pessimistic after five months of stop-start talks that have frequently broken down
Something I’m struggling to understand: if people say Hamas does not represent Palestine, why are they the ones representing Gaza diplomatically? Shouldn’t the UN or someone step in so that Gazans can decide who their government is first, before anybody can make decisions for them – especially a group of deeply corrupt oligarchs based in a different country?
The UN can’t step in.
The US protects Israel from UN intervention.
The people of Gaza haven’t been able to have an election for about 18 years because of conditions there.
Netanyahu’s faction in Israel initially helped Hamas because they wanted to “divide and conquer” so that the Palestinians didn’t have one government and couldn’t negotiate a two state solution.
Don’t forget in March when the cease fire was proposed and China and Russia vetoed it. It isn’t as simple as the U.S. being the only outside group at fault for the UN not stepping in.
That’s true of March, but if you look at the big picture the US always vetos on the side of Israel’s political interests (until the most recent one, which Israel didn’t obey anyway). This was going on long before the current genocide.
The US has recently been trying to lobby the ICC on behalf of Israel (neither country are member states). Its support is a big part of why we can’t just step in and start enforcing international law eg the Geneva Conventions.
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No elections because Hamas wouldn’t allow any form of democracy. I know people are (rightfully) focused on Israel right now, but let us not forget what massive pieces of shit the Hamas leadership is. As far as I can tell this is the exact situation they were aiming for. Endless war. A situation we (as Americans or just humans in general, take your pick) have been, are, and most likely will continue to enable and inflame.
Same as it ever was
I was specifically explaining to that person why the international community is not able to intervene via the UN.
Hamas leadership is shitty too, I agree, but in factual terms it simply lacks the power to singlehandedly prevent an international intervention.
They’re a last-ditch liberation movement with four discreet wings of praxis, dude. Moreover, the Palestinian Authority is collaborationist with occupying forces - this isn’t about manufacturing an endless war, though I’m sure Lockheed Martin and Elbit shareholders would love that - this is about reclaiming tangible avenues for political agency that were either captured or outright denied, violently, by ‘Israel’.
You disagree, sure, but you don’t seem to understand the inhuman scale, decades of systemic violence, a population has to endure to make violence the only mutually understood language left.
Also - to your point - it doesn’t help how many peaceful community leaders, politicians and organizers have been assassinated by the IOF and settlers in the last 75 years. Democracy, as presented by the PA, was never earnest or effectual in occupied Palestine - it was always a membrane of indigenous skin stretched over the occupiers demands.
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This is true, but it seems to me like an Italy in WW2 kind of situation (sorry for all the WW2 parallels, folks) where a government was voted in but overstayed its welcome, to put it mildly.
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https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-palestinians-opinion-poll-wartime-views-a0baade915619cd070b5393844bc4514
I’m sorry, but that’s not what the article says. 90% of respondents think Abbas should resign, but that is separate from “approval”. FTA:
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Do you think there might be a good reason for that? Say, their children getting wiped out by the thousands?
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Can we really trust those figures? I’m sure the Kims in the DPRK enjoy very high “approval ratings” too. What is the cost of saying you disapprove?
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The people they picked don’t even live there and do little but embezzle funds… Of course they picked “wrong”. I am in favor of democracy and I don’t think what’s happening now in Gaza is democratic at all.
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If you genuinely believe that a group voted in 18 years ago who don’t live in the country and haven’t held an election since then can be considered a legitimate government, we’re never going to see eye to eye on this.
That would be nice but Palestinians never get a seat at the table when it comes to talks about things in the region. They were left out of the Abraham accords which was meant to normalize relations in the region with Israel and they’ll be left out of this because Israel wants to keep being able to steam roll them. Not let them have any kind of platform or position to be able to negotiate.
And yet Israel is negotiating with Hamas?..
Yeah because that legitimizes Hamas and let’s them keep using the reasoning that their cleansing of Gaza is to go after Hamas. Letting a terrorist group have a platform just makes them look better cause they can keep going see how bad these guys are, we have to kill everyone there to get rid of them.
We can support Palestinian people without devolving into leftwing conspiracism.
What part of that is conspiracy? Israel is using Hamas as justification for their genocide in the region. If Israel negotiated with the people of Gaza (in whatever form that would take) rather than Hamas it would invalidate what they’ve been doing. Negotiating with Hamas continues projecting the false image that they’re after just the terrorists when they’re pretty clearly going after civilians as well.
And if Israel and Hamas come to an agreement, do you admit you are wrong?
Nothing I said above says there won’t be an agreement. I could see an agreement happening especially with the situation in the US and the ICJ considering warrants. That doesn’t change why they negotiate with Hamas and not the people.
Does it matter who they negotiate with if it ends up stopping the war and saving lives?
For the same reason that dictatorial regimes are still negotiated with to end wars.
“They represent the popular will” and “They represent the ability of the region to continue fighting” are two different things.
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In this situation, they’re the ones holding the hostages, and they did win the elections in Gaza in 2006, after-which they basically removed anyone else that could challenge them in Gaza. The Palestinian Authority still represents the West Bank, but they’re not holding hostages nor could they guarantee their return if they were negotiating. Hamas is a useful tool for Israel because they give Israel exactly the kinds of excuses they need to barge in and take more land.
Whoever represents a country is whoever has military control over the land and population inhabiting that country. Very rarely is there any other option (e.g. exiled leader).
Also, the UN is mostly a tool of the 5 veto-wielding members of the security council, who’ve done nothing to prevent Israel’s genocide — They are incapable of representing, and don’t deserve to represent, the Palestinian people.
Belgium in WW1, France and Greece during WW2, Spain during Franco, and I’m sure there are others… It isn’t that uncommon. I’m not suggesting the UN occupies Gaza permanently, but Gazans should be able to decide who represents them (and I sure hope it isn’t Hamas).
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If they vote Hamas in during a free and fair election, that is completely their right… But it’ll also be the last vote they cast before Gaza is turned into a parking lot.
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I said why earlier – whatever the circumstances under which Hamas was voted in, this has long since passed any pretense of democracy, and the legitimacy of Hamas as a government today is questionable, to say the least.
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That doesn’t make any sense, because they are already treating Hamas as the legitimate government. Why would they be so reluctant to allow something that would yield the same outcome that they accept today?
Likud are the ones who have been propping up Hamas. I’m sure the US would like them gone, though.
Jesus fucking Christ.
France ended up occupied by Germany in WW2 with the deeply unpopular Vichy govt.
Gaza is in the position of an occupied territory.
The US blocks most UN resolutions about Gaza.
Meanwhile Gaza itself has at this point lost 60% of its buildings (75% in Gaza city) and has reached famine conditions in the north.
To be actually declared a famine, an area needs 20% of its people to be starving and 30% of its children to show visible signs like muscle wasting.
They are in no condition to hold a free and fair election right now. They need urgent help.
I don’t see how an election could happen during the current war? A long term cease fire is necessary to organize. So now if hamas who is part of the conflict and the one that fight Israel is not part of the negaciation who will?
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