Yeah this thread is full of idiots who care more about Marvel movies than about historical fact.
Norse society was hyper masculine and being called womanlike was just about the worst insult you could give to someone. Nobody “worshipped” Loki, he was the antagonist/occasionally the antihero of their stories, but the takeaway of the stories was always meant to be “Loki is not a role model”
Why do people care if a society of slavers and pillagers from 1200 years ago were progressive by modern standards? What an idiotic thing to be so confidently wrong about.
Ooo - a true master on Viking history here!! Tell us all about how it really was and what values they had. What ethnicities they accepted and how they viewed homosexuality?
Accusing a man of being “ergi,” which is basically unmanly, was enough of an insult to be answered with blood. A specific instance of something that qualifies a man of being ergi is taking the passive role (bottom) in homosexual intercourse.
Author and Norse historian Neil Price describes “Viking” culture as being one of the most homophobic in history.
Please don’t accuse me of making claims I did not. I gave one example of homophobia and the opinion of a respected historian. Not every insult was taken as seriously as ergi. Very few insults were as dire. This is ONE example of Viking homophobia. I don’t give a shit if they were homophobic or not, they’re dead.
Accusing a man of being “ergi,” which is basically unmanly, was enough of an insult to be answered with blood.
So is a gay man calling another gay man a faggot. The use as essentially equivalent with “bottom” is only attested since the medieval age.
On the flipside we have things like shield maidens and the survival of the old gods alongside with the patriarchal Indo-European newcomers, very uncommon, those things don’t happen by accident. People don’t talk about peace treaties between gods out of the blue – And Odin isn’t even the sky father, that’d be Thor (to wit, lightning and thunder) while Odin is engaging in seidhr. Call him a bottom, then! Making a claim such as “most homophobic in history” out of a single word given what else there’s attested about the society is rather rich.
The truth is that we don’t know much but this: That any contemporary political group leaning it one way or the other is full of shit.
Please don’t accuse me of making claims I did not. I gave one example of Viking homophobia. It’s also a big example, as “not appearing as an ergi” is pretty much the driving motivation for many of the gods in the tales we have. This means being manly in general, and being penetrated by another is just one thing that immediately labels you as ergi.
Neil Price did not make his claim that Vikings were severely homophobic from a single word either (no idea where you got this). You are free to read his work yourself for more information.
No i’m pretty sure the burden of proof is on you for this one. You will be hard pressed to prove that “vining society” was this relative egalitarian utopia you are describing.
Dude this is the internet, the burden of proof is on the person anyone says “Source?” to first.
In seriousness though, we’re shooting the shit here. The burden of proof is shared equally. Someone said something, they gave reasoning (a form of evidence) why they think that thing, and you just came and said “No you’re wrong.” The ball is firmly in your court to explain why.
This is completely false lol
Yeah this thread is full of idiots who care more about Marvel movies than about historical fact.
Norse society was hyper masculine and being called womanlike was just about the worst insult you could give to someone. Nobody “worshipped” Loki, he was the antagonist/occasionally the antihero of their stories, but the takeaway of the stories was always meant to be “Loki is not a role model”
Why do people care if a society of slavers and pillagers from 1200 years ago were progressive by modern standards? What an idiotic thing to be so confidently wrong about.
Scandiboos don’t care for historical facts. Somehow, Nordic slaver pirates seem to have the best PR team in history and they eat up every last bit.
spoiler
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Ooo - a true master on Viking history here!! Tell us all about how it really was and what values they had. What ethnicities they accepted and how they viewed homosexuality?
Accusing a man of being “ergi,” which is basically unmanly, was enough of an insult to be answered with blood. A specific instance of something that qualifies a man of being ergi is taking the passive role (bottom) in homosexual intercourse.
Author and Norse historian Neil Price describes “Viking” culture as being one of the most homophobic in history.
Yet being top was accepted and revered. I’d say they were somewhat bi-friendly, and I’ve yet to hear about how they viewed lesbians.
Both Loki and Odin takes the roles/duties of women several times, while not being cast out or referred to as ergi.
Cross dressing I think was harder to execute as the manly outfits were lavish already.
When the giant Thyrm stole Thor’s hammer and wanted to marry Freya, the other gods made Thor dress in drag and pretend to be the bride to get it back.
Thor literally doesn’t want to dress as a woman in this story EXPRESSLY because he fears being labeled ergi. He says this explicitly.
This is story is a comedy, and this portion of it is told as a joke at Thor’s expense, where Loki and Freya tease him about it.
I think in that case a neat Latin phrase applies:
Quid licet Iovi, non licet bovi.
“using gay as an insult” is not proof of extreme homophobia. By that logic every teenager on the planet would be extreme homophobic.
In fact, pretty much every descriptive word can be used as an insult. If anything your example proofs, that vikings take insults very serious.
Please don’t accuse me of making claims I did not. I gave one example of homophobia and the opinion of a respected historian. Not every insult was taken as seriously as ergi. Very few insults were as dire. This is ONE example of Viking homophobia. I don’t give a shit if they were homophobic or not, they’re dead.
So is a gay man calling another gay man a faggot. The use as essentially equivalent with “bottom” is only attested since the medieval age.
On the flipside we have things like shield maidens and the survival of the old gods alongside with the patriarchal Indo-European newcomers, very uncommon, those things don’t happen by accident. People don’t talk about peace treaties between gods out of the blue – And Odin isn’t even the sky father, that’d be Thor (to wit, lightning and thunder) while Odin is engaging in seidhr. Call him a bottom, then! Making a claim such as “most homophobic in history” out of a single word given what else there’s attested about the society is rather rich.
The truth is that we don’t know much but this: That any contemporary political group leaning it one way or the other is full of shit.
Please don’t accuse me of making claims I did not. I gave one example of Viking homophobia. It’s also a big example, as “not appearing as an ergi” is pretty much the driving motivation for many of the gods in the tales we have. This means being manly in general, and being penetrated by another is just one thing that immediately labels you as ergi.
Neil Price did not make his claim that Vikings were severely homophobic from a single word either (no idea where you got this). You are free to read his work yourself for more information.
No i’m pretty sure the burden of proof is on you for this one. You will be hard pressed to prove that “vining society” was this relative egalitarian utopia you are describing.
Dude this is the internet, the burden of proof is on the person anyone says “Source?” to first.
In seriousness though, we’re shooting the shit here. The burden of proof is shared equally. Someone said something, they gave reasoning (a form of evidence) why they think that thing, and you just came and said “No you’re wrong.” The ball is firmly in your court to explain why.
how about if I prove my points and you prove they’re lies
You can do whatever you want
Right - then I’ll just block you
This isn’t an airport and all that