Top NATO official Adm. Rob Bauer warned Thursday that a larger war with Russia and other adversaries is a real threat amid the ongoing conflict in Ukraine.
Bauer, chair of the Western security alliance’s Military Committee, said “not everything is going to be hunky dory in the next 20 years.”
“I’m not saying it is going wrong tomorrow, but we have to realize it’s not a given that we are in peace,” he said at a press conference in Brussels. “That’s why we have the plans, that’s why we are preparing for conflict with Russia and the terror groups if it comes to it.”
Bauer emphasized the security alliance is defensive and does not seek conflict or a wider war.
“But if they attack us, we have to be ready,” he added.
Based on the show they’ve put on in Ukraine, and leaving aside nuclear weapons, I don’t think the Russian military is a credible threat to NATO.
Even so, NATO wouldn’t kerb-stomp Russia.
Completely obliterating its government, industrial capacity, trade, and military would lead to a collapse of that country, fracturing of its territory, and probably heaps more political headaches down the road as the power dynamic is altered.
NATO would aspire to remove Russia from non-Russian territory in most areas, probably including Transnistria but excluding Syria and Africa. They would probably seek regime change, but the old guard of Russian politics would be preserved. They want to return the status-quo ante bellum.
The US and NATO would always seek the Japan option and not the Iraq option. Japan surendered and basically became an autonomous industrial client state of the US for a long time. Iraq dissolved into civil wars and became an unhealing wound that continually sprouted infections like ISIS and became a playground for bad actors like Iran.
Even after the collapse of the soviet union, the US financially propped up some industries in Russia, like their spaceflight industry.
Nobody wants to own Russia either. As our eloquent former president said, it’s a ‘shithole country’ with few redeeming qualities. But Russia might have a lot to gain in terms of plunder and valuable land in a war with more geographically blessed neighboring countries. Particularly ones with warm water ports. It’s good to keep the fight up. Plus, unlike some countries, Ukraine really does want to be a sovereign country with a vibrant democracy. And it has the balls to go for the gold, too.
Comparing Iraq to Japan is wild. One is a united country for long time, the other was created based on arbitrary lines on a map.
NATO as a credible threat is mostly article 5, Something that is still intact, but under attack. Russia doesn’t want the large European powers or America. They want to control Eastern Europe, the Baltics and the Balkans. Say the political winds change a little, America moves to isolationism. Western Europe decides that it is better to give up on a few smaller states to protect its core countries. Maybe also China decided it is finally time to see if everybody is bluffing over protecting Taiwan. Suddenly NATO seems a lot less dangerous.
Could Russia take on NATO in a one on one conflict, not no not at the moment. Could Russia foment the weakening or break up of NATO and then use that to take on Small Pieces of NATO yeah that has been a plan in the works for a long time now.
So… Putin can’t take Ukraine and is losing a not insignificant part of their military capabilities and yet we’re concerned that we’re going to deal with more war with Russia? Are they going to be coming after Europeans with sharpened sticks?
Russia doesn’t need Ukraine on its own, they need Ukraine to get access Poland, Romania and Moldova.
They already switched into war time production, and if they manage to get Ukraine they only need a year or two to replenish all military equipment.
People really underestimate Russia and that’s the worst thing you can do to get caught pants down. If Russia senses there’s a chance to succeed they will move on.
Another thing the West seems to be ignoring is that they think the war is just what is happening in Ukraine, when the majority of their operation is disinformation, subversion, and destabilization.
The popularity of far right politicians (who for some reason are friendly toward Kremlin) or BRExit shows how effective it is.
They already switched into war time production, and if they manage to get Ukraine they only need a year or two to replenish all military equipment.
And who’s going to do all the replenishing? Disabled former soldiers, the single moms the dead ones left behind, or the almost nonexistent men over 55? Oh, maybe they could liberate the prison population, half of which has AIDS.
Edit: not to mention their enormous deficit in power projection, assuming they could replenish their equipment and find people to operate it. They barely have a navy, have essentially lost access to the Baltic, and other than Belarus have no allies who would let them use their territory for staging.
Russia doesn’t need Ukraine on its own, they need Ukraine to get access Poland, Romania and Moldova.
But why? Poland and Romania are already in NATO. Isn’t that why they’re attacking Ukraine now and Georgia in 2008, to prevent them from joining NATO?
Prolly nukes. At which point who cares any more.
Considering the poor state of all their military equipment, I wonder how many of their nukes are actually functional.
I hear this said a lot, but unfortunately if one is working that is one too many
The nice thing about having 6000 nukes is you only need about half of them.
I think a half of a half of a half of a half of half of that would probably do just fine too tbh
Nah even 6k is not enough to kill the world anymore, you’d need to use them all to eradicate one country.
Pathetic tbqh. Probably can’t even guarantee the destruction of every city with more than 100k people, why even bother?
Only need one
Related stories (credit : @Hooverx@lemm.ee )
From Germany hooverx had 4 more sources :
Putin could attack NATO in ‘5 to 8 years,’ German defense minister warns – POLITICO
https://lemmy.world/post/10912750
originally :
https://www.politico.eu/article/vladimir-putin-russia-germany-boris-pistorius-nato/Russian spring offensive could lead to war with Nato, according to German defence scenario https://www.intellinews.com/russia-could-attack-nato-as-early-as-february-bild-reports-307785/
Germany warns of Russian attack on NATO within ‘5-8 years’ https://www.aa.com.tr/en/europe/germany-warns-of-russian-attack-on-nato-within-5-8-years-/3113783
Leaked German military documents laid out a doomsday scenario where Russia wins in Ukraine then invades Europe
https://www.businessinsider.com/leaked-military-docs-envision-russia-war-nato-in-2024-2024-12 from Poland :
‘Europe will be subject to a direct Russian attack in the next few years’ — Polish PM Tusk https://news.yahoo.com/europe-subject-direct-russian-attack-150500271.htmlPolish PM warns of possible Russian aggression against Europe https://newsukraine.rbc.ua/news/polish-pm-warns-of-possible-russian-aggression-1704315471.html
and 2 from Estonia:
Europe has 3-5 years to prepare for threat from Russia’s side - Estonian PM https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2024/01/15/7437368/Russia’s attack on NATO - Kaja Kallas says there is 3-5 years to prepare and calls for stopping Putin in Ukraine
https://eng.obozrevatel.com/section-world/news-there-are-3-5-years-to-prepare-estonian-prime-minister-warned-of-possible-russian-aggression-against-nato-16-01-2024.htmlThis is the best summary I could come up with:
Rob Bauer warned Thursday that a larger war with Russia and other adversaries is a real threat amid the ongoing conflict in Ukraine.
Bauer, chair of the Western security alliance’s Military Committee, said “not everything is going to be hunky dory in the next 20 years.”
Bauer gave the dire warning as NATO announced large-scale exercises next week involving all 31 alliance members, as well as candidate nation Sweden.
The military drills, which run until May and are the largest since the end of the Cold War, will involve 90,000 troops and numerous vehicles, aircraft and ships spread across Europe.
When announcing the drills, NATO leaders emphasized this week that it was vital to prepare for conflict and maintain readiness, even as the alliance remains defensive by nature.
Moscow’s invasion of Ukraine has sparked concerns that a Russian victory could pave the way for subsequent attack on NATO countries, while the Biden administration is fending off attacks from Iranian-backed groups across the Middle East as Washington seeks to contain a wider regional war from spilling out.
The original article contains 341 words, the summary contains 176 words. Saved 48%. I’m a bot and I’m open source!
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To be fair, the immancy of war with Russia is purely a function of proximity and preparedness.
👆 This account was made a week ago.
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I was banking on total world collapse within the next 20 years.
Don’t bank on it. It’s a possibility of course, but it’s at least as likely that it doesn’t happen, so you should do reasonable preparations for if the society you’re living in DOESN’T collapse.
Be the change you want to see in the world. Collapse society yourself /s
if the society you’re living in DOESN’T collapse.
I honesty can’t tell if this is the bad ending or not.
In the Cyberpunk 2077 setting, survival is the unhappy ending.
You see, there’s no convenient apocalypse
Won’t be no vaporizing cloud
Now we’re gonna have to soak in what we created - too bad!
Just not in a pleasant, easily resolved, no questions asked, nuclear global happy ending with a big bow on top
People have said that in the 1910s, late 1920s, late 1930s, late 1940s all the way up until the early 1990s, and then we started saying it for other reasons like climate change and AI. It’s always possible, but honestly not likely. The end of globalization will have some severe effects across the world like massive famine in countries that keep reproducing with no food security, but I don’t think we should constantly declare the sky is falling when we’ve proven just how resilient the world is in the wake of an all-out pandemic and supply chain crisis
From the Russian perspective, the world order already collapsed in 1991.
The problem is: for Romania, Poland, Ukraine, and many other countries, that’s when life started to get better. Russia thinks the opposite, they want to return to the time of the Soviet Union.
Nostalgia for the 1980s wouldn’t be a “collapse”. But… it’d be good for Russia, bad for USA and especially bad for Europe. It would be incredibly unpleasant to Poland, Romania, Moldova, and Ukraine.
