i DO think it is fair to lament that the state of the world has anyone in a place where they must strategically vote for a fucking banker to protect you from something worse
I’m not sure I’m following but I want to, Carney was a banker which is bad but he is considered a necessary evil against Trump? I would totally understand that, as Canada might be really fucked without a good leader right now. I suppose this banker will need to prove himself, but if you an actor has been able to protect Ukraine (most of it) against Russia a banker doesn’t sound like a bad choice.
That aside, do people here think Carney is equally left/right as Trudeau was or do you think the liberals will have very different direction under his leadership?
you absolutely want the masked evil. it’s survivable. the mask of evil is putin, trump, and poliviere. it’s hitler, stalin, and mussolini. the result of giving the mask off evil power has always resulted in deaths in the millions. the problem with banality of evil types is less that they are evil and more that they are the “good men” who do nothing, allowing evil to succeed. the point of leftist thought is to cordon mark off evil away from power. you will encounter “leftists” who advocate for the mask off evil types in hopes that this will galvanize the populace into fighting back against dictators, but history doesn’t bear out that that’s what happens. mask off evil types are extremely good at dividing the lower classes and thinning them one group at a time via genocide.
and if you pay attention to accelerationists, no amount of terrible is ever enough to galvanize the people. the point of something is what it does, and accerationists are always in lock step with the right wingers they claim to resist
I think I’ve heard to many people say “well at least he’s honest about it” and got confused. Restrained evil is definitely more preferable than evil on the loose.
Carney is the Liberal Party, a centrist party, leader and therefor PM. Polliviere is the Conservative party leader and they have less seats so they don’t get to pick PM. If Polly got in, which is to say if his party had more seats than any other individual party, he would be Pro-Trump and his party in general is very Pro-Trump.
Most people agree that Trudeau was slightly more left than Carney, but many are upset that the New Democratic Party, the left and social democrat party of Canada, lost seats and have never held a PM position but honestly they would be crazy to expect anything else.
The identity crisis many leftist canadians were facing is whether they give up on NDP and vote Liberal or whether they allow a conservative PM. I’m sure they want empathy more than answers, right now.
Well it looks like they’ll need the NDP to form their minority government. The NDP should give their support contingent on changing the voting system to something better than first past the post.
They won’t have this much bargaining power ever again.
They had this much bargaining power with the previous government (also a liberal minority supported by NDP) and they weren’t able to use it to push electoral reform
I mean the guy is a straight laced professor of economics who wrote his thesis on the advantage of competition. He’s not exactly a working class hero. However, it could have been way worse and anyone who can’t see that just needs to look at the US to find out what happens when you don’t vote for the lesser of two evils.
Lesser of two evils, lesser of two intellects, lesser of two personalities, lesser of two qualifications, lesser of two accomplishments, we did all of that and then some. I’m happy for you all. I just wish we could have also rejected fascism.
The implication that I believe you are missing is that all humans are to some degree evil, and that goes doubly so for the type of human that finds themselves working in the world of politics.
It’s tongue-in-cheek, and that was very well known when the phrase originally came out.
Nothing is pure and virtue doesn’t matter. And even if virtue did matter, when you decide not to choose you are just as culpable with the result when it is the worse evil.
You can’t wash your hands if you had the power to act.
Where did I say that you shouldn’t vote? Of course you should vote. That’s a civic responsibility. I’m just rejecting the “lesser evil” argument. It’s used to support and justify bad candidates, and it helps to move the Overton Window in a more evil direction. All of those “lesser evil” candidates helped pave the way for Trump.
you don’t have to be an authcom to see that carney is to the right of trudeau; he canceled the carbon tax, the capital gains tax hike, and is in favor of building more oil pipelines
no matter who won, canada would shift to the right. all we could do is decide by how much.
(and either way, all 3 of them - trudeau, carney and poilievre - are neolibs who support the genocide in palestine)
He cancelled the carbon tax because the name had been beaten up by the Conservatives. He promised to replace it with something similar but more palatable to the general public. I loved the carbon tax but agree that half the population was against it because pretty much they hated the name.
He explained in depth his reasoning for both of those decisions and if you listen to him its because the carbon tax failed to accomplish its goal and he is going to tackle the problem another way.He still supports the issue he is just trying a different solution.
For the cgt its because Canada has entered a trade war with its closest trading partner and he is planning to do massive investment in Canada and doesnt want a cgt hike disincentivizing investment.
And if the conservative had won they all would have suddenly become optimists “the bright side is that this will weaken the western empire and accelerated the revolution of the working class!”
Fuck tankies too. Many Canadians are understandably concerned that a guy slightly to the right of the status quo which gave rise to Poilievre is not going to make anything better for us.
I already see Canadian tankies complaining about how right-wing Carney is.
The Canadian Overton Window shifts to the right, regardless.
And how would the window have shifted if little pp had won?
It shifts left when they realize they have no choice but to stop moving right.
To paraphrase Jim Carrey, they’ll keep moving right as long as ‘So you’re saying there’s a chance!?!?’
I’m not sure I’m following but I want to, Carney was a banker which is bad but he is considered a necessary evil against Trump? I would totally understand that, as Canada might be really fucked without a good leader right now. I suppose this banker will need to prove himself, but if you an actor has been able to protect Ukraine (most of it) against Russia a banker doesn’t sound like a bad choice.
That aside, do people here think Carney is equally left/right as Trudeau was or do you think the liberals will have very different direction under his leadership?
my point was more that bankers are the embodiment of the banality of evil and pp is the embodiment of true mask off evil
Hmm in that case I wouldn’t know I’d prefer the masked or the unmasked evil, hard to say. Good points can be made for both I guess.
you absolutely want the masked evil. it’s survivable. the mask of evil is putin, trump, and poliviere. it’s hitler, stalin, and mussolini. the result of giving the mask off evil power has always resulted in deaths in the millions. the problem with banality of evil types is less that they are evil and more that they are the “good men” who do nothing, allowing evil to succeed. the point of leftist thought is to cordon mark off evil away from power. you will encounter “leftists” who advocate for the mask off evil types in hopes that this will galvanize the populace into fighting back against dictators, but history doesn’t bear out that that’s what happens. mask off evil types are extremely good at dividing the lower classes and thinning them one group at a time via genocide.
and if you pay attention to accelerationists, no amount of terrible is ever enough to galvanize the people. the point of something is what it does, and accerationists are always in lock step with the right wingers they claim to resist
I think I’ve heard to many people say “well at least he’s honest about it” and got confused. Restrained evil is definitely more preferable than evil on the loose.
You need evil with shame.
Shameless evil is absolutely unstoppable.
So yes but actually no.
Carney is the Liberal Party, a centrist party, leader and therefor PM. Polliviere is the Conservative party leader and they have less seats so they don’t get to pick PM. If Polly got in, which is to say if his party had more seats than any other individual party, he would be Pro-Trump and his party in general is very Pro-Trump.
Most people agree that Trudeau was slightly more left than Carney, but many are upset that the New Democratic Party, the left and social democrat party of Canada, lost seats and have never held a PM position but honestly they would be crazy to expect anything else.
The identity crisis many leftist canadians were facing is whether they give up on NDP and vote Liberal or whether they allow a conservative PM. I’m sure they want empathy more than answers, right now.
Well it looks like they’ll need the NDP to form their minority government. The NDP should give their support contingent on changing the voting system to something better than first past the post.
They won’t have this much bargaining power ever again.
They had this much bargaining power with the previous government (also a liberal minority supported by NDP) and they weren’t able to use it to push electoral reform
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and you think i support liberalism because…?
I mean the guy is a straight laced professor of economics who wrote his thesis on the advantage of competition. He’s not exactly a working class hero. However, it could have been way worse and anyone who can’t see that just needs to look at the US to find out what happens when you don’t vote for the lesser of two evils.
IMO anybody who promotes competition and antimonopoly is a working class hero.
Lesser of two evils, lesser of two intellects, lesser of two personalities, lesser of two qualifications, lesser of two accomplishments, we did all of that and then some. I’m happy for you all. I just wish we could have also rejected fascism.
Supporting lesser of two evils just gets you more and more evil, and eventually you get to Trump.
The implication that I believe you are missing is that all humans are to some degree evil, and that goes doubly so for the type of human that finds themselves working in the world of politics.
It’s tongue-in-cheek, and that was very well known when the phrase originally came out.
The subtlety seems to have been lost over time.
Someone read that quote from The Witcher, not recognizing it was planted right at the beginning of a character arc of growth.
That phrase is aggressively fucking stupid.
Nothing is pure and virtue doesn’t matter. And even if virtue did matter, when you decide not to choose you are just as culpable with the result when it is the worse evil.
You can’t wash your hands if you had the power to act.
Where did I say that you shouldn’t vote? Of course you should vote. That’s a civic responsibility. I’m just rejecting the “lesser evil” argument. It’s used to support and justify bad candidates, and it helps to move the Overton Window in a more evil direction. All of those “lesser evil” candidates helped pave the way for Trump.
People not voting to prevent him from winning got us Trump.
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I think this is more like multiple paths that are all in the same narrow valley, if pollievre had won that would have led to a different path for sure
You don’t have to be a tankie to see that Carney is a red tory.
you don’t have to be an authcom to see that carney is to the right of trudeau; he canceled the carbon tax, the capital gains tax hike, and is in favor of building more oil pipelines
no matter who won, canada would shift to the right. all we could do is decide by how much.
(and either way, all 3 of them - trudeau, carney and poilievre - are neolibs who support the genocide in palestine)
He cancelled the carbon tax because the name had been beaten up by the Conservatives. He promised to replace it with something similar but more palatable to the general public. I loved the carbon tax but agree that half the population was against it because pretty much they hated the name.
Just for clarification, he cancelled the consumer carbon tax. It was pretty much just a move to screw over PP (and I’m all for that honestly)
He explained in depth his reasoning for both of those decisions and if you listen to him its because the carbon tax failed to accomplish its goal and he is going to tackle the problem another way.He still supports the issue he is just trying a different solution.
For the cgt its because Canada has entered a trade war with its closest trading partner and he is planning to do massive investment in Canada and doesnt want a cgt hike disincentivizing investment.
Do you disagree with this reasoning?
And if the conservative had won they all would have suddenly become optimists “the bright side is that this will weaken the western empire and accelerated the revolution of the working class!”
Stephen Harper when he was leader of the Conservative Party offered Mark Carney a position as Finance Minister.
So Conservatives sure thought he was far enough to the right to be a Conservative.
Ah, the enlightened centrist has bestowed the ultimate and correct opinion.
Fuck tankies too. Many Canadians are understandably concerned that a guy slightly to the right of the status quo which gave rise to Poilievre is not going to make anything better for us.