This could be huge for vehicle design as a whole.
The rear wheel of the bike in the picture tells me all of this is completely fantasy.
They have been trying to make the hubless wheel a futuristic thing for so long it’s technically retro now.
The hubless wheel is on their current models. It’s basically their signature differentiator.
There’s reason to be skeptical of the company and its claims as a whole, but at least that particular feature has shipped and has been test driven by reviewers:
https://thepack.news/11000-km-in-2-months-marc-travels-rides-the-verge-ts-across-europe/
Well thanks for correcting me, that is wild. I can’t imagine it’s actually pragmatic.
At least it being a fully integrated hub(less) electric motor makes it a much more sensible of a solution than many other tries with all kinds of belt drives and gears and cogs and stuff.
Adding a bunch of unsprung weight is a poor decision when it comes to handling though, and that’s something pretty important in a motorbike that’s trying to do more than just low speed commuting. Such a design will also be putting a lot of vibration through the motor components which is not good for longevity. It’s more a case of going for the (admittedly distinctive) aesthetic rather than being sensible.
Makes me wonder about the wheel’s rotational inertia, too. In theory, a hubless wheel could be lower mass overall without the need for a center axle/hub and spokes connecting the outside to the center. But that’s all weight saved in the center of the wheel with lower effect on overall rotational inertia. Visually, the picture that makes the thumbnail in this post shows that the brake disc has to be further from the center of the wheel, which I imagine adds a lot more weight (more material necessary for the overall brake disc being a larger circle) and a lot more rotational inertia (further from the center).
Maybe the whole design itself can save weight in certain places that make up for the weight added in other places. But I just have a ton of questions, and am overall pretty skeptical of the long term potential of this design.
Looks cool, though, I guess.
The motor design has huge performance benefits. Power is like a solid disk motor of the same size. Their previous model claimed much faster 0-60 time, and so I don’t get why it dropped, but if true, the discharge rate of battery simply isn’t as high as NMC. That would also explain why they have to have both huge range and fast charge.
more complex, more expensive, more prone to fail fromdirt entering gears, more strain on rims, and alignment in cornering suffers.
There are good reason why real motorcycle companies avoid these designs that are best left as movie props.
I watched that exact video. I still don’t think it’s ever more efficient to have a hubless wheel vs a good central bearing.
Because it isn’t? I’m comparing it to other hubless designs, stuff like this.
It’s just more bullshit for a company marketing bullshit to techbros who will use these bikes as living room ornaments.
There is no advantage to a hubless wheel.
Sure there is. There’s a value to some people to look different. That translates to dollars.
There’s not a Performance advantage to a hubless wheel.
Motorcycle buyers, especially sportbikes, don’t take kindly to bullshit. Hubless wheels are heavy, have more wear components and are pointlessly complex. But pointless complexity is a requirement in EVs to justify the overprice.
And truck buyers value functionality. Yet the cyber truck made money. 🤷♂️
Looks cool, ngl
tells thieves not to steal it
What is the point in a $37,000 bike with SS battery and 600km of range. ICE bikes get about 200km a tank. No one rides 600km a day on a naked sport bike. If the point of SS batteries is fast charging , then why carry around 33 KWhr of overpriced battery?
This is a bike designed by non motorcyclists and marketed on numbers. 1000nm instant torque? That’s unrideable. 3.5 sec 0-60 is not fast for a motorcycle, so their math doesn’t even make sense. It’s just a bunch of numbers. 200kw charging? Who cares, and good luck finding a charger that will do that.
Every premium price EV bike company has gone broke.
Don’t worry, there’s no way it’ll do 600km outside of a perfect lab test. 200 km is more likely, maybe 300.
I think the bike exists to sell the battery. I’m getting a strong feeling there is no intention for the bike to be profitable, but rather as a proof that what they’re selling works by showcasing a real-world model that people can buy and drive.
With their plans to out-scale Tesla in battery manufacturing, it seems to me that they’re hoping to capture deals with EV manufacturers.
Your points are valid but those chargers are very common, probbaly the most common where I am. There are 400kw chargers cropping up too.
Also I would hope that the range is so high to allow for the inevitable failure to achieve the stated range.
But yeah everything else is laugh worthy
Turn something this into a moderately off road capable adventure bike and I’m sold. The BMW and KTM guys will absolutely pay $20,000 for it, albeit maybe not $37,000.
My KLR has about 200 miles of range per fill, if you’re even the slightest bit careful with it, which is necessary for excursions out into the bush where there are neither gas stations nor charging points.
Anyone have a non-video summary/article?
Pulled the CC data from downsub, asked AI to summarize, then reviewed the CC to make sure it was accurate.
It’s mostly fluff centered around data about a couple of new packs and claimed ranges.
20 kWh Pack
- Range: 350 km
- Charging power: Up to 100 kW
- Adds 200 km of range in 10 minutes
30 kWh Solid‑State Pack
- Range: 600 km on a single charge
- Charging power: Up to 200 kW
- Adds 300 km of range in under 10 minutes
Claims to be largest motorcycle battery of its kind
SO they’re decently large, can charge quickly, I’d be a bit surprised if they were getting those actual ranges in real-world scenarios.
They are also 38,000 euro for the base model bike.
That is wildly expensive for a emotercycle, but maybe not if they are legitimate solid state.
Even then, it’s still wildly expensive if you compare it to other ICE motorcycles with similar specs.
If a random person could buy three bikes that would outperform it for same price as one of these, then I just don’t see how the market can support it
The Indian Ultraviolette is <$5000.
Why pay for a fast charging bike AND a huge battery. If it had a 10kwhr battery, it would get the range of most ICE bikes and charge in 4 minutes. It’s just stupid.
I’ll belive it when a lab has verified the batteries are actually solid state. The CEO appears to be a grifter and they had no battery prototypes on hand at CES? Smells awfully like a scam.
But do they make loud wroom wroom noises? If not half of motorcyclists will not be interested.
But there is something in that to be fair, it is a lifestyle, culture and hobby. I thought the livewire looked cool but I would say its novelty, I wouod find it difficult to see them as equals.
I’ll sell an add on speaker. Loud pipes save lives.
Loud pipes save lives.
Zero owners have much lower crash rates than Harley owners. Brutherrrr.
they move pedestrians out of the way when you’re driving slow. the same situation you could ask them politely or ring a bell. so really they’re for folk with social anxiety.
That study just proves that they need to be REALLY loud to work. Aight then.
That would be nice. People could turn them off at 2AM when there’s no one else on the roads. But I’m sure they wouldn’t.
Or when they’re in low speed population dense areas where bicyclists are part of traffic.
Doesn’t need both fast charging and huge range. Knock $10k off the price for half the range is a much more appealing product. Battery tech in a much lighter sub 2000w ebike/powerstation is a much bigger win, as this is still 600lbs afaiu.
Arwe there any non-“solid state” battery for motorcycles? What is the generation principle?
In the context of lithium-ion batteries, “solid state” means that there’s no liquid electrolyte, rather than meaning there are no moving parts.
I doubt these are actually solid state, more likely hybrid solid state.
I agree. I’m very skeptical about their claims and so far I can’t find any evidence of 3rd party verification of anything. All the “news” about their batteries is just glorified press releases.
https://www.flashbattery.tech/en/blog/how-solid-state-batteries-work/
I think their naming leaves a lot to be desired :)
Sick
are solid state batteries even ready for mass production yet ?
Yes
GAC and Dongfeng are already making them. Shaeffler is making them in North America.
Sounds good. Does it actually work in real world? Why can’t they make wheels the same?
Bikes are not a good investment in western countries with long winter seasons, it’s dangerous and uncomfortable to ride in cold conditions, so stuff like this is purely for rich people to use as recreational toys in the summer
TIL I’m rich because I own a $2000 motorcycle, and that it’s only a toy for use in the summer. I can’t believe that someone just mansplained riding motorcycles in poor weather. Rain gear and insulated clothing has existed for a long time.
Plus heated gear and equipment exist. You can absolutely ride a motorcycle in Winter, it just kinda sucks.
Sucks in a fun way if you’re a certain type of person. I’ve ridden through a lightning storm where my motorcycle couldn’t go past 55mph due to a headwind. It was exciting, and super fun.
So, you don’t live where frosted pavement and black ice are a thing? And temperatures seldom dip below freezing.
I do, temperatures are often below freezing in the winter.
And how many other bikers do you see around you when you ride, 1 or 2 maybe, it’s a niche hobby not a means of daily transportation for most, go visit any Asian country to see what using bikes as a daily transportation looks like, the streets are chock full of bikers and it’s a mix of men and women, young and old
I wasn’t saying it was a common thing to see others riding (which it is, as long as there isn’t snow on the road), I was just saying people who ride aren’t rich just because they own a motorcycle, and that it’s possible to ride in the winter.
I’m not sure what your point is about Asian countries, I am aware that two wheeled vehicles are a means of transportation.
