Fucking backward religion. So much would be better without any religion whatsoever
Iran should just deport all their engineers, philosophers, critical thinkers, social unacceptable members to other countries that would be glad to receive a brain boost. That way, Iran could just happily fucking rot in its own juices.
Nah, the religious fanatics should all just move to a mountain top monastery like they did in ancient times. They’d be much happier there.
I’d accept that too! And stop being allowed to make social policy and laws!
Well one of them managed to escape
Who is going to take them? Every country puts up walls to keep refugees out.
People with advanced education have a much easier time immigrating.
Money
They already are!
I am so sad that the mass protests had no effect. Poor Iranian people, especially women. What can anyone do to free them?
I was heartened to hear about the people keeping up the public opposition of the clerics, beyond knocking off their turbans. I hope that the clerics understand that their time is passing and that they are shaking in their sandals with the very realistic fear that they will continue to get randomly gunned down by the people anytime an opportunity presents it. Fuck theocratic Islam and all other exclusivist religions.
Even the Gulanist movement from Turkey, who likes to put on a friendly face to the western world, is exclusivist – if pressed, their real opinions come through their strategic friendly face da’wah, e.g., it is not hard to get them to call Sufis (one of the few mystical/not-exclusivist islamic groups) heretics or “not real muslims.”
it is not hard to get them to call Sufis (one of the few mystical/not-exclusivist islamic groups) heretics or “not real muslims.”
Exclusivist meaning? Because while I would hesitate to call anyone a heretic as a Muslim I can think of quite a few reasons someone would call Sufis that.
Yes, because you apparently hold exclusivist ideas about what a “real muslim” is. Religious exclusivity is where you believe your way is the only way to a proper relationship with “god,” that non-members of your group are doomed in some way or another, and that atheists and those religions that don’t believe in the Abrahamic God are especially doomed.
Oh, that’s what you meant. That’s… uh… how religions work in general? Like yeah if that’s the meaning then not being exclusivist is just kufr. The only weird part that you consider being exclusivist such a bad thing.
Believe it or not, that is not how religions work in general. Not that you could tell over the noise of the fundamentalist evangelical christians, but major Christian denominations are no longer exclusivist, no longer believe that any religious text is divinely inspired and flawless, gave up the iron age notion of women as so much chattel entirely subject to the will of men, etc. Judaism is largely NOT exclusivist though the orthodox believe that Jews should be observant to their interpretation of the jewish law.
The fact that you’re willing to call out what is kufr or not is but one example that modern Islam is by-and-large fundamentalist, just a question of degree.
The fact that you’re willing to call out what is kufr or not is but one example that modern Islam is by-and-large fundamentalist, just a question of degree.
That’s true.
Buddhism, at least in some of its forms, isn’t like that. For example, Zen Buddhism would absolutely not endorse the suggestion that Zen Buddhists know something others don’t know, or have anything special, or have a special technique, or can come to gain or achieve something special that sets them apart from others. If you wander towards any of these ideas you’d be very clearly missing the point.
What can anyone do to free them?
Arm them.
How do you get the arms to them?
Well step 1 should not be selling drugs in Latin America. We already tried that.
Start by protesting religion in your own country. Religion is bad everywhere. If some crazy groups want to believe in fairies, that’s ok, just do it in your home and don’t bring it out of there.
Publicly putting groups in your cross hairs tends to motivate said group.
Motivates said group to what?
Whatever they perceive as defensive measures. Rallying against those they are threatened by, recruiting, doubling down on their commitment and beliefs.
Then the government must take stricter measurements against said groups. Lets see who lose at the end.
I think they had a very large effect, hence this pathetic pushback from the govt.
What can anyone do to free them?
The problem is religion. The best way to deconvert people is to show them that you can function without skydaddy. Allah (as a concept) has always been a narcissist, you are nothing without it.
Me personally if I was given the task I would move billions into generating content showing people of Iranian background living normal lives with diet-Islam to no-Islam. From movies and TV, to hiring Instagramers. An ocean of content being pumped into there every year.
I think the problem is the US-installed dictatorship, but I could be wrong Idk.
Absolutely. It was space vegan socialism humanist utopian paradise prior to 1953. Such a fine year 1953, my parents wouldn’t be born for a decade and they are grandparents now. That was the also the moment Islam developed all of its problems, you see there was no slaves, or gender oppression, or bigotry, or war, or dictatorships for 1300 years. Nope just utter paradise for 13 centuries.
Why is the standard a perfect society instead of societies from the same time period?
skydaddy I Lollled a bit 🤣🤣 🤣
Thanks, wish I could claim to have coined the term. Such an improvement over “heavenly father”.
Religion of peace
This is wrong by an islamic standpoint. Go to reddit with this bs… Life isnt that simple you 🤡
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(or practically any country with an islamic majority),
Oh you mean like Indonesia, Malaysia and all of North Africa? You’re free to be an ignorant Islamophobe, but please do it after using Google for five seconds.
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And Islamophobe it was created to deflect any criticism of islam,
No, it was created because people like you hate Muslims, and we needed a term for that. Or are you somehow denying that Muslims experience discrimination based on their religion (if only we had a term for that, maybe something starting with Islam and ending with phobia)?
Either way I don’t intend to pursue this conversation any further, but if your answer to my question is yes (and even if it’s no, really), you need to interact more with the outside world.
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Does not change anything about what i said. Religion has nothing to do with any of this, these countries would still be shitholes even if it never existed, but sure keep telling yourself what you want, makes it easier
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İran has been muslim for quite some time, was it always as it is right now? Do you seriously think that islam is the only factor here? Think a little bit for yourself
You definitely convinced me.
I dont need to convince you, believe what you want. Im just telling you that youre wrong
This is wrong by an islamic standpoint.
The part about it being the religion of peace? Yeah we noticed.
Wait, people actually still get lashes?? What fucking year is this
Lashes is for the lucky ones.
The less lucky ones get hanged. And if you think hanged as in a quick drop and neck snap, no. They hang you slowly with a crane so that you suffer more, that is required by
Darth vaderthe ayatollah…Fuck everything about those religious zealot nut cases
It’s the age where in many muslim countries, if you say something even mildly critical about the ruling class or the priests or Islam, there’s a very high risk of being executed for it.
In Muslim countries it’s always the middle ages
yeah welcome to the real world
More like the modern dark ages
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A religion where women are beaten and people are blown up for fun. Islam is like a cancer of all modern religions. I must check how many down votes I get in next 12h.
cancer of all modern religions
Meh, they’re all pretty bad imo
Modern Religion is an oxymoron
Oh none from me, though I’d pool just about every other religion in with that. They’re all shit in their own ways. The concept of a modern religion also makes no sense, by their nature religions are archaic power tools used to control the masses against their individual will via their collective will.
A religion where women are beaten and people are blown up for fun.
I’ll just say that we (well most of us) also hate the people who do these things. I’ll also say that you’re a bigot.
“We are struggling against sanctions and need to build our own capacities up and become more independent.”
“Better attack the people we need to do it then. A piece of cloth is more important than our survival.”
so much fuss over a hat,please muslims, make it make sense. why is it a female’s job to worry about your stupid ass erections?
Dont say muslims, i dont give a shit what you think this is OBVIOUSLY not what the majority of muslims want or support. This isnt even right in the most literal islamic pov
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Would you kindly explain how the no true Scotsman fallacy applies here?
It is explained for 5 yearolds in the article.
The people doing this are muslims doing it in the name of Islam. If you’re only defence is that they’re not “real” muslims then youre what the fallacy is talking about.
I’m not saying they’re not real Muslims, but that doesn’t mean all Muslims, or Islam as a whole, is like that. Actions of the minority don’t define the majority, or else they’d be just that: A majority.
The silence of the mayority is complicit approval
And Mohamed can take his shit book and push it right up his pedophile ass
Yeah nah over a billion people dont have to speak up because of actions like this in random ass countries, especially a shia country, that mist wouldn’t even consider muslim…
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Again no, there is no such rule. You can not enforce Islam and you can not punish someone for not following it with lashes, such things are forbidden.
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Just because they claim that doesnt make it actually 100% islamic dumbass tf
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How tf do you even get a thought like ? It really impresses me You willingly misinterpret what im saying
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A country of barbarians.
every religious-led country is a country of barbarians.
it is the human collective absolving themselves of responsibility in liue of some greater power
religion is a transmissible poison that must be removed, like cigarettes
Hooray, a Persian Gulf country sentenced someone to a punishment other than death for a harmless crime!
I thought 74 Lashes were clearly lethal?
AFAIK there is nothing humane about such a sentence, on the contrary, it can mean slow and painful death.
I just tried to find this out, in most muslim countries, the too many lashes are spread out over several times, to avoid death. A limit is for example 50 lashes per time in Saudi Arabia.
Fucking barbarians.
Absolutely, although I don’t think barbarians were quite that bad.
Wasn’t barbarian just Roman slang for non Romans?
Yes, but more specifically the non romans from the north.
I think Barbarian comes from much later when the Barbary Pirates were kidnapping people and razing villages and towns to the ground and forcing people into slavery. I think “Goths” and “Vandals” would be more appropriate, but I could be wildly mistaken
Queue the blood eagle!
Obligatory I don’t agree with the mess going on in Iran.
With that out of the way, there’s a decent amount of restrictions on the lashing process to make the sentence painful but not lethal or permanently disabling. Lashing someone with all your strength and ripping the flesh off their back pre-Civil War America style isn’t a thing., because ripping the flesh off people’s backs tends to kill them.
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This isn’t specific to Islam. This is what theocracy looks like. Very few religions are fit doctrines on which to run a country. There are plenty of American Christians who would have me killed for who I am.
The US was ~90% Christian until recently. Same with our elected officials, bad things happen from time to time and stupid laws, but the rate of attrocious incidents like this are far less. You could argue it’s cultural, not based in religious text, but tell that to apostates that fear for their lives.
I think Christianity can be used as the banner for an archaic regime just as easily as Islam. It hasn’t mostly because Christian majority countries happen to have moved on to science, industry and commerce. Middle East countries have been so actively fucked with by the west that they really can’t climb that ladder, except the ones that have some stability thanks to having a monarch defended by the west. Iran’s holy revolution was a response to a US puppet ruler. Afghanistan has been kept in the dark ages by constant war fueled by western states. Yemen has been brutalized by the Saudis without repercussion because the West protect the Saudis.
So who are really the barbarians in this picture? The west enjoy all the trappings of a modern society but the games they play with other regions in the world are beyond barbaric: the barbarism is just more obscured and geographically removed.
Throw some bombs at Mississippi, kill the bulk of their leadership, and they’ll be hanging queers in a week. I have been attacked in public by an American Christian extremist; I sometimes get to fear for my life right here in the Midwest. Put these people in a state of desperation, and it’ll be a swampy theocracy in no time. America is ~250 years into running a country that was founded on not having a state religion. That’s a far cry from a theocracy founded under violent foreign interference less than a century ago, and we still have dangerous religious extremists. It’s not a matter of culture. It’s a matter of circumstance.
Mississippi, Alabama, and Missouri are 100% archaic Christian shithole countries that are just propped up by virtue of being US states. The religious stranglehold is just as real.
To be honest I’ve avoid that region pretty much entirely because that’s the impression I have as well.
The descriptions I hear about conservatism down there are wild.
Mate. The Christian religion spawns YE creationists. Thoughts and prayers for the victims of avoidable massacres. Life sentences of servitude for mothers of rape babies. Life sentences of fear for gay people.
All religion is twisted. Why pick on one or another? They all need to go.
Holy shit is 74 lashes even survivable?? I feel like it would flay the flesh off
hisher back and never recover, die from infection or something. Not a doctor and not a torturer so idk.Her back. It was a female engineer protesting being forced to wear a hijab.
My mistake, misread the post thanks. Horrible, poor woman.
From what I understand they can stretch that over multiple sessions. No idea if they have a fixed set of lashes per session or if they simply stop when a doctor signals it gets problematic and continue when the wounds have somewhat started to heal.
It’s actually a pretty common punishment in Iran so should be survivable for most people, or people would revolt if their teenager lashed to death for drinking alcohol.
Obligatory what Iran is doing makes no fucking sense.
That aside, lashing in Islam doesn’t mean lashing with all your strength and ripping the flesh off the guy you’re lashing. There are a lot of restrictions to make the process painful, but survivable without permanent injuries.
Fuck any religion that posits death or beating for anyone. Fuck any religion that teaches women are subservient to men. I don’t give a flying fuck about “a lot of restrictions” – fuck this brutal religion.
This may be my ignorance speaking, but I’d far rather be lashed than imprisoned.
I’d rather see the clerical leadership publicly executed for their crimes against humanity and Iranians be free from the boot of oppression.
Idk why you’re downvoted for this. I would too.
I once headbutted a cop while already in jail, and they just took me to a side room and beat the shit out of me (I was still handcuffed), and I’d take that over “assault on an officer” charge 100 times out of 100.
I’m certain this is vastly worse than what I got, but I’d still rather be whipped than imprisoned. I don’t do well behind bars.
Depends on the lashing.
https://www.history.com/news/whipped-peter-slavery-photo-scourged-back-real-story-civil-war
Someone asked a question and I answered. What are you so upset about?
I don’t think they’re upset at you, just in general.
I’m upset at the use of obligatory
It’s because without mentioning that part I’ll get a whole bunch of FUCK YOU BARBARIAN YOU SHOULD BE ASHAMED blah blah blah because it can sound like I’m defending what Iran is doing at first glance.
Uh, I’m upset about religions that teach people women are not worthy of being on the same level as men. I’m upset that certain countries beat the crap out of people to dissuade then from opposing the decisions of their ruling oligarchs…
*typos
And muslisms in france don’t understand the ban of hijabs in schools. This is why.
Talk about a non-sequitor.
Explain?
You’re basically saying France that banning hijab somehow has anything to do with not becoming a dictatorship.
It is banning a religious ideal imposed by an opressive reliegion. It has anything to do with not becoming a dictatorship.
This is how a dictatorship look like: “Iranian Enginner who protested forced hijab sentenced to 74 lashes”
I was told that it was a ban on all religious symbols and it wasn’t a targetted attack on a minority group. Now you are saying it is targeted.
Are we doing the “say the quite part loud” now?
When did I say it was targeted?
You implied it. "banning a religious ideal imposed by an opressive reliegion. "
You’re still not actually supporting that claim. I guess this is what it looks like when you haven’t reasoned your way into a position.
By the way, there’s a reason democracies tend to value freedom of religion.
Is anyone banning people from being Muslims? Let me know and I’ll go protest for them to the streets.
Seriously, this is the best you came up with? Technically being Muslim isn’t banned in China either. Preventing people from harmlessly practicing their religion is also against freedom of religion.
Wait what??? But my college buddy who fell down the ruzzian propaganda pipeline tells me the west is evil and Iran is actions of the most moral countries out there!!
Jfc
Iran, such a innocent country, the regime, victims of the evil west…
When I read the title I just imagined how society there is stuck in the medieval ages… just a sad state of affairs…
As others have mentioned, others get far worse, being hung from cranes on a daily bases, most of them Kurds for seeking their freedoms.
Can Iran not be a victim of the west but also wrong in their treatment of women?
Society isn’t stuck in the medieval ages there. It’s cruel, sure. But they have phones, coffee and automatic weapons just like everyone else, so they’re firmly in the same age as everyone else.
This woman is using her privilege as a prominent(ish) figure to highlight the injustices prevalent in Iran, so she’s unlikely to get the worse punishments you’ve mentioned. I say fair play to her and I hope more people get to speak out.
Sadly, though, history tells us that dictators can do whatever the fuck they like to their own people with no repercussions.Yes they can be the victim of the west and also terrible. But you have to ask yourself if the meddling of the west helped create the conditions for this terribleness. My recollection is that the mullahs staged a revolt to oust a US-installed puppet regime.
I don’t think that question will have a remotely simple answer.
As broadly as I phrased it, it’s really pretty simple. The answer is yes.
You’re right. Did it help? Absolutely. But it’s such a complex situation that I reckon no single human fully understands how, or the interplay between that and all of the other factors at play.
And from there, moving towards a place where there is justice/fairness is impossible because a consensus on what that even means is impossible. It’s incredibly depressing.It’s toxic is what it is. You could pour goodness and light into it for a century and the hatred and division would just eat it up and shit it out. The west has fucked the region royally. They’ve also fucked themselves and each other royally.
It’s an evil theocratic dictatorship, but do you know how it got that way? There was a revolution opposing a US puppet ruler. The west would like all Middle East nations to be like the Saudis: nice, stable petro states who are compliant for the most part and who cares what happens there internally. But this formula has gone wrong several times (Iran) or the west hasn’t tried as hard to achieve stability because the oil incentive isn’t there (Syria) or the borders were specifically drawn to crate instability (Iraq).
There’s no pointing fingers at the Middle East without acknowledging the culpability of the UK, France, Russia and the USA in their horrid dysfunction. Understanding this is a rite of passage. Children point and hoot about the horrible Arabs. Adults know what’s actually up with that part of the world.
Interesting. Did the evil west make the islamists purge their leftist allies after the shah was deposed in the glorious revolution?
Don’t try to turn me into someone saying that everything is western corruption and nothing is the fault of the nationals themselves.
That’s a textbook straw man. Have fun beating it up.
Yeah it’s all the west’s fault
Give me a fucking break, the west isn’t responsible for them treating women like literal trash for hundreds of years
No, just for creating the conditions that allowed the mullahs to seize power. You know that the vast majority of Iranians hate the dictatorship, right? Everything they do is to control their internal population. A lot of people who would never call themselves feminists suddenly care about women’s rights when it privides a way for them to unleash their hatred on Iranians.
