10-year-old Fatima Jaafar Abdullah was killed in pager explosions in Lebanon.
Israel murders another kid again.
If anyone else did this, it would be universally recognized as a heinous act of state-sponsered terrorism.
Right? Imagine if Iran did this to Israel.
There would be no more Iran if they did it to Israel.
If iPhones had explosives planted in them straight out of the factory and would’ve went off in New York all at the same time, injuring thousands and endangering people around them, the 24/7 news cycle would’ve already called for total annihilation and what not.
Oh man, the bill to go to war with China would have been ratified in milliseconds.
Indeed. I’m paging Nasrallah right now that he should update his manifesto
Oh, wait…
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10 year old girl clearly was in a right wing terrorist group.
Wide range bombings like this are not a military tactic aimed at neutralizing a threat. This is literally what terrorists do to cause terror.
10 year old girl clearly was in a right wing terrorist group.
This is what Israelis actually believe
In an episode of Two Nice Jewish Boys, which aired three weeks ago, host Weinstein said: “If you gave me a button to just erase Gaza, every single living being in Gaza would no longer be living tomorrow. I would press it in a second.”
He claimed that “most Israelis” would do the same.
Meningher added that they would also want to wipe out Palestinians in “the territories.”
“Because that’s the reality we live in, it’s us or them, and it has to be them,” Weinstein said.
He added that Israelis want “full-scale war.”
Distributing bombs to terrorists is about as exact as you can get. It’s not on Israel if a terrorist lets their kids play with their tools.
Israel could have leveled a block in Lebanon like they do in Gaza, but they didn’t.
It’s not on Israel if a terrorist lets their kids play with their tools.
Man has pager in his pocket. Man is sitting down having a meal with his family. Pager blows up in his pocket, killing the child sitting next to him, and probably killing or injuring other family members.
Targeted or not, that child’s death is squarely on Israel. They decided that collateral damage was acceptable when they chose this method of mass assassination.
When Hezbollah chose to reopen hostilities with Israel the outcome would always be more death. Her father could have chosen peace instead
This attack didn’t just target militants, it also hit politicians who would be working diplomatically towards peace. Israel has an extremely broad definition of “terrorist”
Do you have examples?
Dropping smaller bombs that kill innocents is still terrorism. It’s not like it’s okay if I blow up a bus just because I blew up a building last week.
Blowing up the bus that transports soldiers to camp is a hell of a lot better than blowing up a building where a single officer lives.
In this analogy it’s just a city bus. They killed civilians with this attack, I’m not sure if you realize. Unless you think the 10 year old girl was a hardened Hezbollah soldier.
And yes, it’s better, but not good. Especially since they’re not even at war with Lebanon right now. They’re just trying to expand the conflict to keep the US in a forever war to justify their genocide and so Netanyahu never has to account for his crimes.
A City bus doesn’t actually fit the analogy. Israel didn’t randomly distribute explosive pagers to anyone. They went to a terrorist organization.
In this case it’s Hezbollah that chose to ‘expand the conflict’ back in October
They’re evil terrorists either way.
Israel could have leveled a block in Lebanon like they do in Gaza, but they didn’t.
They absolutely cannot, not without expecting a similar, if not bigger, retaliation from Lebanon, Iran, Insarhallah, and probably Turkey.
Lebanon could retaliate, but it’s still going to bring whether Hezbollah is really state sponsored to the forefront of the conflict. The other two countries aren’t going to openly invite US/EU intervention by taking action.
Not really. The attack indiscriminately killed and injured many innocent Lebonese. Lebanon is fully justified in responding solely on that basis alone.
That really doesn’t seem to be true though. There’s no reports of anyone injured that wasn’t a militant or directly related to one. This doesn’t seem to be a case of 100s of innocent’s to a single target, it appears to very much be the opposite. That is expressly not indiscriminate.
Turkey literally said they were willing to intervene if the conflict further escalates.
And if Israel bombed Lebanon, it wouldn’t matter whether Hezbollah is state sponsored or not. They would be attacking Lebanon’s sovereignty.
Distributing bombs to terrorists
What if you distribute bombs to Lebanese civilians, detonate them, and then label the corpses “Terrorist” after the fact?
Then there would be news articles about mass civilian casualties, and not the focus on a single girl who was the daughter of a Hezbollah militant.
Then there would be news articles about mass civilian casualties
You’re literally posting under one of them.
Focused on a single person who was in a car with a Hezbollah member when the pager exploded. Yes it’s unfortunate she died instead of her father, but it’s hardly proof of indiscriminate attacks.
Israel continues doing bad things. Not much of a shock.
Still needs to be called out each time it happens.
Frustrating to do another long-form argument of “actually, when you distribute a bunch of explosives and set them off in crowded areas, you’re not fighting terrorism but doing terrorism”
For some reason people struggle to believe flinging hand grenades into a crowd is bad public policy when a US ally does it.
this is considerably more targeted at the actual bad guys than their usual MO of bulldozing palastinian neighborhoods though so… an improvement?
'hey at least it’s not genocide, it’s just terrorism light
There’s no proof of that and I’m not trusting mossad lies.
Truly the depravity of Israel knows no limits.
It seems they did learn some stuff from WW2.
Y’know, by the standards of a military assault, this one was actually pretty targeted. So far there’s a handful of children in thousands of casualties, who mostly fit the profile of a military or military-adjacent individual. Compare that to a ground assault of your choice, by any military anywhere.
Let’s shit on them for all the actual atrocities they’ve done.
I’m going to shit on them for this too. I don’t need to give them any credit.
If you actually care about being taken seriously, being factually correct helps.
You mean killing children as par for the course, or killing people who are attending a funerary rite for other people who were killed by the same killer, is somehow not an atrocity?
I think I explained how the children were not par for the course this time, actually. Rage jerk away, but I thought I’d inject some factuality while it’s still uncool.
know, by the standards of an Israeli military assault, this one was actually pretty targeted
FTFY, and yeah, at least this time they didn’t actively bomb a known humanitarian corridor or refugee camp, so that would be comparatively targeted.
By any normal standard. By the standards of recent Israeli military assaults, this was a damn miracle.
I am quite shocked after reading the comments. There are some people who believe Israel are the victims, after all what Israel did this past few months.
Manufactured consent is a helluva drug
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It is a huge technical operation to intercept an order and replace it with modified devices without the target knowing. Particularly when the target has to be extra careful in ordering things in the first place to avoid sanctions.
In contrast sending out an “execute order 66” message is pretty trivial to trigger them
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Not a ton is known, by from what I understand the explosives were part of a secondary board added to the pagers, which would also have the ability to listen for a separate signal or look for a specific one the pager received.
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Well, they had to make room inside for the high explosive charge, so it was never going to be a slight change to an off-the-shelf product. There’s not typically a lot of dead space in a pager.
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Is there data on what the payload actually was?
This wasn’t an interception. The devices were designed and manufactured by Israeli intelligence. They just licensed out brandnames through shell companies, and convinced Hezbollah to buy models from their agents by conventional spycraft.
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Replace battery with battery/explosive/receiver combo.
I believe they triggers a cell in the LIPO batteries to overheat causing the explosive material to explode.
May have been done at the source of the manufacturing.
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There are videos capturing lots of explosions going off simulataneously. Since pagers already can recieve messages and these devices were deeply infiltrated, they likely added a special trigger message to set them off. THis could also allow other scenarios, like only setting off one (for whatever reason).
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If they can plant explosives they can 100% tap into the circuit or maybe reprogram the board. The CIA is known to be able to do this to specific devices by plucking them from the mail. Mossad could likely do their own production run and ship that to Hezbollah.
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you really might not.
before there were mobile phones there was analog dtmf wired telephones. they replaced pulse dialing and allowed for all kinds of additional signalling and triggering. ring a bell, operate a relay, kick people off so you could call the president, entire automated analog switching centers, you name it.
when mobile networks came on the scene there were all sorts of additional triggers but because the (second gen? the ones that could do sms) signals were actually digital, there was a much wider array of possibilities. dtmf had a handful of frequencies it supported and if you wanted to do something more you had to basically make sure the entire network you were using could send, transport and receive those frequencies.
now imagine instead of sixteen combinations of frequencies played at the same time you have access to thousands of possible triggers. once you have simple stuff like the basic receiving of text and lighting a led or playing one of several legally distinct jingles covered, you could do do much more. and people did. there were all kinds of things pagers could do through combinations of local interface and digital communication with a cell tower, all mediated through a handful of baseband chips on the pager pcb that could have the pins for stuff they wouldn’t be used for disconnected.
but how would you make a pager set off an explosive?
well, the same way you use a casio f91w wristwatch to. you use its built in functionality (the speaker when the alarm goes off) to trigger a battery that can deliver enough electricity into a resistor to heat it up enough to make your (primary) explosive detonate.
in the case of a pager, those baseband chips have all kinds of on and off switching built in. it’s not hard to imagine that basic, out of the box functionality would include pulling a pin high when it gets “*97” or some such. now tie that pin to the base of a transistor across the positive and negative terminals of the battery and sitting against a little petn and you got yourself a remotely triggered explosive.
you wouldn’t even need a pcb.
there’s probably a lot of stuff thats incorrect in this reply. it’s late and this is off the dome.
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If they can intercept the message where it isn’t encrypted, they can simply sniff the messages coming on the page and wait for their signal.
Then, they can trigger the explosive to a specific message.
That’s a wild guess though.
I have
asome question(s).Did all pagers in Lebanon just explode or was it only targeted pagers of terrorists that exploded? where they rigged with explosives? how can such a small device in the hands of so few people hurt so many people if they were not rigged with explosives? Was it only terrorist using pagers or is this still a thing i Lebanon?
Allegedly the shipment was intercepted and there was semtex installed
Hezbollah decided to switch to using pagers because you can’t track them. Not sure if anyone else (eg. Medical personnel) was also using them.
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The 10 year old girl was Hezbolah?
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Or maybe she died because she was young and small.
You and all the people upvoting you are fucking insane. Justifying a little girl during like this is peak American coping mechanisms.
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Is israel saying its a retaliation for that? Would make more sense.
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So that’s justification to kill her?
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it wasn’t though.
they deliberately set off an explosive device with no notion as to where that device or who else it was around. This was a deliberate act, and the way their using them, the chaos and “collateral damage” isn’t a bug, it’s a feature.
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I’m going to guess she was very close to her father when the bomb went off. According to reports, a message (phone number?) was sent to all of the intercepted Hezbollah pagers at 3pm local time (IIRC), after a couple of seconds, the bomb went off. So a likely scenario is the father had the girl on his lap, the pager starts buzzing/ringing, dad reaches into his pocket and pulls out the pager to read the message. Proximity to the pager killed the girl while only injuring dad since he has a much greater body mass. Or, perhaps the pager was laying on a table and the girl picked it up? It’s sad, either way.
Doesn’t matter if it was hizbollah pagers or not. Hizbollah fighter also had to live normal life, go to shops to buy food etc
This is why i also ask if they were rigged with explosives or they somehow made the batteries explode or smth. There are no details in the local news but clips of some guy falling over because something in his pocket exploded. This made no sense that something like that, could cause 2750 injuries unless almost 3000 pagers exploded in a similar way, especially because everything around these guys, was barelly affected!
From what I have read elsewhere, batteries don’t explode. They can heat up and catch fire, but not explode. From what I have read online, a small amount of explosives were added to the pagers plus a very small detonator.
Yeah… i have read multiple explanations from the shipment being intercepted and rigged, to the actual pagers being old but they all had their batteries replaced recently with rigged ones. It does indeed sound like some explosives were introduced into the pagers, one way or annother.
Hezbollah fighter could choose to live normal life and not be a member of Hezbollah. Lay down with dogs, wake up with fleas…
I don’t care about hizbollah. I care about the civilians who didn’t choose to be with a hizbollah fighter in the same place. Israel did the plan knowing really well that civilians and members of the fighter families would die.
I don’t care about hizbollah.
And Hezbollah doesn’t care about any civilians that get killed near them. ‘Involuntary Martyrs’ is the term I believe they used. According to reports, only 14 people have died, which is an extraordinarily low number considering that Israel went after thousands of targets that don’t wear uniforms and deliberately intermix freely amongst civilians.
Yes hizbollah doesn’t care about civilians, the problem is that you are removing alll the blame from israel. You are forgetting the hundred of injured too. If you think it’s ok for israel to sacrifice civilians to kill militants you are a terrible human being
From the videos I have seen, very few truly innocent bystanders are being hurt. These are very small explosive charges. In one video, a Hiz dude looks at his pager while he is in the produce section of a market. There are about 4 - 5 people within 10 feet of him. The pager explodes, Hiz dude goes down, no one else is hurt. In a second video, Hezbollah member is paying for something. He is within arm’s reach of the clerk he is giving the money to. The pager goes off, he goes down. The clerk runs away unscathed.
In the history of warfare, this operation may be the most surgical of strikes ever in regards to intended targets hit vs innocent civilians hit.
It’s a sad fact of modern warfare that if a militant group doesn’t wear uniforms and tries to hide amongst civilians, it opponents will eventually go after them and there will be civilian casualties.
Here are the videos I was talking about. Be warned, they are a little rough to watch. There isn’t any blood, but the audio is quite disturbing. You may want to mute them.
Here is the market video I was talking about. https://funker530.com/video/hezbollah-operatives-getting-wrecked-by-exploding-pagers
Here is the payment video: https://funker530.com/video/another-hezbollah-pager-explodes-on-camera
Sorry, you are just a scum
I would say it was the Iranian Ambassador but apparently not, what do I know? 🤷♂️🤷♂️
This is the point I keep making. Nevermind whatever else is happening in a war - but there’s no need to bring children into it. Whichever side does so - that’s the wrong side.
Lmfao this attack is aimed at nailing terrorists. Well lookie there. Lemmy you never let me down
I don’t understand what you’re trying to say. Is it OK for a nation state to plant bombs in suspected opponents and then explode them at random without respect for collateral damage? If Russians did the same to Americans, you’d be all “fair play, mate”?
If there were an anti-Russian militia that set up shop in America and occasionally attacked Russia and Russia figured out a way to target many members of this militia and a few innocent bystanders were also injured or killed, the rest of the world would say “yeah… that is what you get” and Americans would say “Why are we allowing these armed assholes to set up shop in America and attack Russia?”
You really believe this is is how it would play out? Astounding…
Lol, if there was an anti-anybody militia that sometimes acted against other states within the US. The US would raid their complex, set it on fire, and shoot people trying to escape.
Then, the government would blame the children and other non-combatants’ deaths on the militia. The public then will watch documentaries made on the subject over dinner.
Pager bombs aimed at extremists are not an American concern. Even if there was a level of non-combatant causilities. If anything, it’s a fun news blip of the week and will be forgotten in less than a month.
Thanks Broseph. I totally agree with your response. I was doing my best to provide a proper analogy to db0’s question: “If Russians did the same to Americans, you’d be all “fair play, mate”?”
If Russians did the same to Americans, you’d be all “fair play, mate”?
At wartime, sure. Using explosives on enemy combatants outside of military-exclusive areas is not inherently a war crime.
Israel is in the wrong here because it’s part and parcel of their continuing strategy of escalation in service to Netanyahu’s forever war so he can stay in power, and the collateral damage is thus pointless from any perspective except that of keeping an authoritarian in power.
They’re not in the wrong because they chose explosives as their choice of attack against Hezbollah. Unless it comes out that their distribution of rigged pagers was utterly untargeted or something of the sort. Which I would not discount the possibility of, considering Israel’s history, but doesn’t seem to be the case according to what’s come out so far.
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No way this is a tergeted attack.
the Jew media
Something tells me this guy isn’t a reliable source
“No BS kNews”
if they have to tell you it’s not BS it probably is
Not even subtle about it
I was a little surprised I didn’t see an 88 in his username
ty
Source: trust me, bro
Reported as a biased source and MBFC backs that up… when talking about Turkish issues, they are very pro government.
As this doesn’t readily involve the Turkish government, I’ll allow it.
“MBFC” is basically a single dude’s opinion, containing a shitton of bias. Using it to verify credibility of anything is wrong.
If you have a better solution involving an API we can use for free, I’m open.
I see no issue with the MBFC assessment on this source.
Lots of people said openly “we’d rather not have it at all”. The bot gets downvoted every thread with comments criticizing it. It doesn’t need to exist and is openly harmful.
I understand someone put a lot of work into it, but it simply doesn’t work for what it needs to do. Unless you want to be spreading misinformation, then it works perfectly.
LOL this is the hilarious response of
“Oh yeah?! Don’t have anything better than putting a biased source of credibility attached to every article for no reason other than for people to use to dismiss articles and not read them?!
Well too bad removing it isn’t an option! Find me a different one cause it makes me feel good!”
said the minority.So, in other words, no, you don’t have a better idea. Got it.
Omg… getting reddit flashbacks right now…
Complaining to the mods about things the admins do? Very Reddit…
Are people really arguing with you and not realizing you already ruled in their favor?
Pick your battles people. You don’t bite the hand that’s feeding you and all that…
The only idea you will accept is yours, literally has to be there cause of no particular reason other than personal desires and wants.
Its like saying the only option is punching or kicking children cause you won’t accept the answer of “stop abusing them!”
Maybe just back off and listen? Or at this point I am forced to assume the mods are being paid for including something that has not been positively talked about once. And they are just taking payment.
Oh, no, we’re fully accepting of other ideas. We even had a meeting with another fact checking company who wanted to charge us 6 figures for API access, so that’s a non-starter.
The basics are really simple - You think MBFC is biased? Cite an example and name someone better.
We’re waiting…
You aren’t accepting of other ideas you just want someone to tell you what they are apparently. These “fact checkers” are for making a profit or paying themselves and mostly exist to make you feel good about being picky with what information you ignore in a world where there mostly isn’t good options for any number of reasons depending who you agree with.
You can’t seen to get the idea that we don’t view it as necessary and visual clutter. And the option we are aiming for isn’t a replacement that you seen to be stuck on because, see above.
People aren’t likely to change their stance either it just reconfirms set feelings for the most part unless it is a lie at which point it should already be removed right?
So this is at best a badge for pretending civility. It’s pointless.
