You know how it is said words have power? The N word was used derogatively to refer to black people. I imagine black people grew real tired of that shit real quick. But over time, they fought back by depriving the derogatory nature of the N word by using it to refer to each other harmlessly. They owned the N word. Now, it is considered extremely respectful for anyone who is not black to not use that word to refer to black people without permission. Why? Because in being respectful to not using that word, you are acknowledging the plight of a generation of black people. That’s real classy.
Haha I could’ve structured that better - in this case I’ve said “not use that word to describe black people”, should work no? Or maybe I’m missing something??
It’s “mathematically” correct but the extra “not” gets easily lost and is in a weird place. Plus it’s not specifically respectful to avoid the use of the word but rather it’s just common decency. In your sentence it puts more weight on the act of not saying it, as if using it is fairly normal and not using it takes some amount of effort.
It is usually better to use phrases like “it is considered disrespectful” over ones like “it is not considered respectful” even though they technically mean the same thing. The first is postively a bad thing and the second is negatively a particularly good thing, if that makes sense. Nuance is tricky business.
I think “it is considered extremely disrespectful for anyone who is not black to use that word […]” would have been clearer, or at least make it harder to miss the “not”.
From Wiktionary (I’m not posting a link, look it up yourself):
There have been efforts by those of African descent to reclaim the word (especially in the form n___a), but these efforts are controversial and some people do not believe it is able to be reclaimed due to its fraught history and continued derogatory usage. Regardless, usage by non-blacks is still almost invariably considered highly racist and offensive.
That doesn’t seem to be a reclaiming of a word (since it wasn’t previously used in a good way), but a reuse of a historically insulting term. I can respect the effort, but I still cringe when hearing it used as an amiable word. I don’t know if that makes me racist because I have trouble moving past it being a slur and distasteful. Maybe it’s still too new and it’s going to take a few generations to become more normalized.
“Reclaim” is still the term we use for that, even though just “claim” or “seize” might be more fitting. See also
homophobic slur
removed
which some LGBT+ people use in an almost tongue-in-cheek way to refer to themselves and each other, as a way to invert and defang the hostility with which it is used by bigots.
Here’s something that most people need to know: not all black people feel the same way about that word.
Some called me an “N-word” in a positive way and were okay with me using it around them (I wasn’t). Some only want other black people to use it. Some don’t want anybody saying it.
As a white person in a committed relationship with a black person, no. It’s always a trap! Never say it! (Jk I know everyone is different, but I will never)
Can I ask where in the world you live? Not to be rude but just that I’m curious because this is one of those things that “everyone knows” in the US at least. Can’t listen to a lot of rap music without hearing it a lot!
Coming from a non anglo culture let me tell you, that debate about the use of the n-word doesn’t go the same way everywhere because the historic background is vastly different…
Tbh I still think that I shouldn’t have to censor myself if I want to sing any song by any black person since about 1985, (nor just avoid singing any song from the most popular black music of the past 40yr because “it was made by black people so I can’t sing it,”) “black music is only for ‘the blacks’ you can’t enjoy other cultures!” sounds almost more racist to me than me singing the real words instead of:
Bitch you thirsty please grab a sprite, my crips lurking don’t die tonight, I just wanna dance with you baby, man down down the ave it gets shady, take a neighbor’s mind off that we can dip fuck in the whip slide right back in the function one wrong word start bustin’ put that on my yankee’s hat, I’m a gangsta crip, fuck gangsta rap, where the ladies at where da hoes where da bitches? Every real neighbor know tha difference, bandana brown like the dope daddy shootin’ in the kitchen, real norf side neighbor never went to wilson or cabrillo, cocaine color of a creole, T-scrap moving for the d-lo and he know…
I mean, I do it, so don’t jump down my throat or anything because I’m already complying with the demand at large, but I disagree that it’s a racist practice to sing the words as written by the author who wrote them simply because I’m of another race. (Unless it’s like a David Allen Coe song, c’mon ykwim, rap music and stuff.)
Other than that I’ll agree it’s an entirely useless word, even if nobody cared I’d only say it then, when singing a song by a black artist I like. It’s kinda hard sometimes to switch the word too, you try and sing LaLa by Tity Boi ft Busta replacing all the words and tell me you didn’t fuck up when Busta said “smoking til a neighbor look a little shitty boy.” Lol.
I’m pretty sure quoting “can a nigga borrow a french fry”, “Now how is a nigga gonna borrow a fry” in almost any format that isn’t your workplace is fine. Same thing with singing songs.
Just don’t be fucking scummy when using words as slurs. That’s all people gotta do. But people keep using it as a slur, so it’s just easier to not say it. Yes, it would be nice if it was magically yeeted out of the cultural lexicon. Words only have the power we give to them.
I’m personally not a fan of saying N-word, N****, or anything like that anyway. You’re literally just making other people say ‘nigga’ in their head but absolving yourself of the guilt of saying it through silly pc terms.
E: Short of being a newscaster and quoting a hate crime, it’s about the only time ‘N-word’ should be used now anyway lol. Just use any other number of words to talk to your friends or enemies in a loving or hating manner. Taking words back is fine and all so they have less power over people. But when you take it back, but still make it have power, then it’s kinda fucking pointless since you’re perpetuating it’s stereotypical use still lol.
Depends on who you ask, some people are ok with it, like us, but some people will tell everyone in your friend group that you’re a racist because of it, or even use physical violence in retaliation in some cases (or stuff like that).
Slurs about a community are often not to be said by anyone but a person in that community trying to reclaim the slur. Maybe it should be “no one is allowed to say slurs,” but there seems to be healing involved in taking back those words.
It has a lot to do with the word being used pretty recently historically in a horrible context.
Also keep in mind that in the US, there are genuinely still plenty of actually racist people. In fact, there are still people using the slur as a slur. I don’t think it’s very odd culturally if you consider this.
It’s less that “white people never say the N word” and more that you absolutely should not be following someone if you believe they’re as racist as that.
When discussing frequency of an action, it’s usually helpful to focus on per capita. This is one of those rare times where both raw numbers and per capita tell interesting stories.
How does saying “the N word” mean someone is “not white”?
But yes, nice if real.
The N word is used by 3 demographics - black people, racist people and 12 year olds playing COD
There is another
When she said maddafacka I burst into laughter
How dare you put black people in the same category with racists and my wife’s boyfriend!?
Only black people use that word? Why?
You know how it is said words have power? The N word was used derogatively to refer to black people. I imagine black people grew real tired of that shit real quick. But over time, they fought back by depriving the derogatory nature of the N word by using it to refer to each other harmlessly. They owned the N word. Now, it is considered extremely respectful for anyone who is not black to not use that word to refer to black people without permission. Why? Because in being respectful to not using that word, you are acknowledging the plight of a generation of black people. That’s real classy.
Interesting, thanks.
looks like you’re missing a negation here. It’s the opposite of “extremely respectful” ;)EDIT: disregard
Haha I could’ve structured that better - in this case I’ve said “not use that word to describe black people”, should work no? Or maybe I’m missing something??
It’s “mathematically” correct but the extra “not” gets easily lost and is in a weird place. Plus it’s not specifically respectful to avoid the use of the word but rather it’s just common decency. In your sentence it puts more weight on the act of not saying it, as if using it is fairly normal and not using it takes some amount of effort.
It is usually better to use phrases like “it is considered disrespectful” over ones like “it is not considered respectful” even though they technically mean the same thing. The first is postively a bad thing and the second is negatively a particularly good thing, if that makes sense. Nuance is tricky business.
oh, i see. You’re right, I guess I misread.
I think “it is considered extremely disrespectful for anyone who is not black to use that word […]” would have been clearer, or at least make it harder to miss the “not”.
From Wiktionary (I’m not posting a link, look it up yourself):
That doesn’t seem to be a reclaiming of a word (since it wasn’t previously used in a good way), but a reuse of a historically insulting term. I can respect the effort, but I still cringe when hearing it used as an amiable word. I don’t know if that makes me racist because I have trouble moving past it being a slur and distasteful. Maybe it’s still too new and it’s going to take a few generations to become more normalized.
“Reclaim” is still the term we use for that, even though just “claim” or “seize” might be more fitting. See also
homophobic slur
removed
which some LGBT+ people use in an almost tongue-in-cheek way to refer to themselves and each other, as a way to invert and defang the hostility with which it is used by bigots.
Huh, your slur got removed. Didn’t realize World did that, thought it was just ml or something.
Yeah, that was news to me, I wasn’t sure if it was just my client. I’m not complaining - but I’ve been half-expecting an automatic ban!
Banning would create a lot of false positives
It’s because you grew up in a different culture that you feel that way. Nothing wrong with it.
Not really to your comment, but adjacent to it.
Here’s something that most people need to know: not all black people feel the same way about that word.
Some called me an “N-word” in a positive way and were okay with me using it around them (I wasn’t). Some only want other black people to use it. Some don’t want anybody saying it.
A lot of white men with a lot of black friends very often make one crucial error:
That N-pass is only good for your friends.
As a white person in a committed relationship with a black person, no. It’s always a trap! Never say it! (Jk I know everyone is different, but I will never)
As is any reclaimed slur when you’re not part of said social minority. (e.g. removed, dyke…)
Ninja edit: Lmao I’m getting censored by either the lemmy instance or my 3rd party app (Jerboa). For reference it was f*****
Lemmy world auto-remove certain slurs
They’re not very extensive though ^^
Yeah ml is much more restrictive.
Can I ask where in the world you live? Not to be rude but just that I’m curious because this is one of those things that “everyone knows” in the US at least. Can’t listen to a lot of rap music without hearing it a lot!
Coming from a non anglo culture let me tell you, that debate about the use of the n-word doesn’t go the same way everywhere because the historic background is vastly different…
Non-US, correct.
The only country where it had these historical negative connotations is the USA, so he might be from literally any other country on earth
There are countries that are probably more aware of the connotations through their connection to the US, I figured.
You aren’t allowed to / really shouldn’t be say it if you aren’t Black.
Presumably under this notion someone anonymous who says it should be abiding that cultural norm.
Meaning that if an anonymous person is saying it and you expect them to abide that norm it’d be reasonable to assume they’re Black.
I’m really still in the camp that there are no bad words. Only bad intent. That said, I’ve got no use for the word. It’s practically a worthless word.
Tbh I still think that I shouldn’t have to censor myself if I want to sing any song by any black person since about 1985, (nor just avoid singing any song from the most popular black music of the past 40yr because “it was made by black people so I can’t sing it,”) “black music is only for ‘the blacks’ you can’t enjoy other cultures!” sounds almost more racist to me than me singing the real words instead of:
I mean, I do it, so don’t jump down my throat or anything because I’m already complying with the demand at large, but I disagree that it’s a racist practice to sing the words as written by the author who wrote them simply because I’m of another race. (Unless it’s like a David Allen Coe song, c’mon ykwim, rap music and stuff.)
Other than that I’ll agree it’s an entirely useless word, even if nobody cared I’d only say it then, when singing a song by a black artist I like. It’s kinda hard sometimes to switch the word too, you try and sing LaLa by Tity Boi ft Busta replacing all the words and tell me you didn’t fuck up when Busta said “smoking til a neighbor look a little shitty boy.” Lol.
I’m pretty sure quoting “can a nigga borrow a french fry”, “Now how is a nigga gonna borrow a fry” in almost any format that isn’t your workplace is fine. Same thing with singing songs.
Just don’t be fucking scummy when using words as slurs. That’s all people gotta do. But people keep using it as a slur, so it’s just easier to not say it. Yes, it would be nice if it was magically yeeted out of the cultural lexicon. Words only have the power we give to them.
I’m personally not a fan of saying N-word, N****, or anything like that anyway. You’re literally just making other people say ‘nigga’ in their head but absolving yourself of the guilt of saying it through silly pc terms.
E: Short of being a newscaster and quoting a hate crime, it’s about the only time ‘N-word’ should be used now anyway lol. Just use any other number of words to talk to your friends or enemies in a loving or hating manner. Taking words back is fine and all so they have less power over people. But when you take it back, but still make it have power, then it’s kinda fucking pointless since you’re perpetuating it’s stereotypical use still lol.
Depends on who you ask, some people are ok with it, like us, but some people will tell everyone in your friend group that you’re a racist because of it, or even use physical violence in retaliation in some cases (or stuff like that).
I agree though with everything else!
Slurs about a community are often not to be said by anyone but a person in that community trying to reclaim the slur. Maybe it should be “no one is allowed to say slurs,” but there seems to be healing involved in taking back those words.
It’s a slur so… saying it is what makes people think you’re racist lol.
I generally assume if someone is using the n-word anonymously that they’re either black or a racist.
It’s not like people have arbitrarily decided that only asians can say the word refrigerator- there’s history behind the word.
It has a lot to do with the word being used pretty recently historically in a horrible context.
Also keep in mind that in the US, there are genuinely still plenty of actually racist people. In fact, there are still people using the slur as a slur. I don’t think it’s very odd culturally if you consider this.
deleted by creator
It’s less that “white people never say the N word” and more that you absolutely should not be following someone if you believe they’re as racist as that.
Replying to check for updates on this.
Begs the question.
In the USA, are there more black people using the N-word, or racists using the N-word?
hmmm, as a percentage of the population and when considering frequency? probably black people. in plain numbers, probably the racists.
When discussing frequency of an action, it’s usually helpful to focus on per capita. This is one of those rare times where both raw numbers and per capita tell interesting stories.