Masked police officers in Romania carried out fresh raids early Wednesday at the home of divisive internet influencer Andrew Tate, who is awaiting trial on charges of human trafficking, rape and forming a criminal gang to sexually exploit women.
Romania’s anti-organized crime agency, DIICOT, said it was searching four homes in Bucharest and nearby Ilfov county, investigating allegations of human trafficking, the trafficking of minors, sexual intercourse with a minor, influencing statements and money laundering. The agency added that hearings will later be held at its headquarters.
Fun fact about our legal system: we don’t do jury trials. The evidence and arguments are heard by the judge, who decides both guilty/not guilty and the sentence.
That’s a terrifying fact about your legal system.
Well, it could be depending on how robust their anti corruption practices are. Because what really makes more sense, 12 citizens, uneducated in law and its application, getting manipulated by differing levels of millionaire depending on the wealth of the defendant/plaintiff? Or a legal expert weighing the facts to determine their strength?
Because, both are open to corruption. The jury of your peers is open to corruption in the ways I’m sure most people on lemmy are familiar with, but the other way, with robust anti corruption laws, would arguably be better.
There’s also the fact that appealing a judgement goes to more judges, always different than ones who have seen the case. Basically:
1st judgement -> 1 judge
1st appeal -> 2 different judges (must be unanimous)
2nd appeal -> 3 different judges (must be unanimous)
This makes corruption less common, as getting 6 different judges to all risk their career for a bribe is unlikely.
I’m not going to claim this system is perfect. There are issues with the fact that there is no mechanism for preventing enforcement of an unjust law. If it’s on the books and it’s an open-shut case, the law will be applied no matter how unjust it is. The inverse is also true though: you can’t have unjust rulings that ignore laws the other direction, for example jury nullification of the murder of a black person (used to happen all the time in the US).
Like most things, it’s a tradeoff. Some things are better, some are worse.
It would be easier and cheaper for an elite to bribe a hand full of judges then it would be to repeatedly bribe different sets of jurors.
Cheaper? Maybe. Easier? No, not really. Ion Popescu from Bumfuck, Nowhere doesn’t have the DNA breathing down his neck, watching for any signs of living outside his means and any unusual bank account activity.
EDIT: To be clear, I’m not saying corruption doesn’t happen. It does. I’m just saying it’s not automatically much worse than juries.
We have laws against bribery in the US and it still happens. I’m going to assume that it’s at least as bad in Romania considering Tate explicitly stated the corrupt justice system is why he moved there. His biggest fuck up was saying that out loud and forcing them to make an example out of him.
Tate explicitly stated the corrupt justice system is why he moved there
It remains to be seen whether or not he was correct in that assessment.
Well, regardless, neither a fair, nor corrupt justice or police force like to be openly called corrupt. Saying that out loud is the smoothest brain thing to do
Like most things law-related, it’s more about enforcement than anything else. Things dramatically improved while our anti-corruption force was under the control of Laura Kovesi. She kicked some serious ass. Now things are treading water a bit, but Romania is not quite the kleptocratic corruptofest it was in the 90s. There’s always improvements to be made ofc.
How much would a judge risking his career and lifelong work as a judge demand vs how much would a couple jurers each trial demand (and how many different trials are you needing to bribe for anyway)? I don’t think it would be cheaper at all, easier would be the same.
If only we had laws for the judges that punish people who break the law. Sounds flawless since no one breaks the law
Because what really makes more sense, 12 citizens, uneducated in law and its application, getting manipulated by differing levels of millionaire depending on the wealth of the defendant/plaintiff?
That doesn’t make a lot of sense, but that’s not what it says in the Owner’s Manual. That’s just how it works out once in awhile. No one’s suggesting the Justice system in the US is magical and flawless. Besides, there aren’t any news articles about juries who get it right and send a guilty person to prison or release an innocent person.
Yeah, it’s not magical or flawless. Because the relationships between the wealthy prosecutors and the judges and the overburdened courts system lead to almost all poor defendants being threatened into taking a plea deal as opposed to going to trial, regardless of their guilt because a jury trial is expensive as fuck and also brings with it the chance to be put away for way longer. That’s how it works out when it doesn’t work out the way it’s laid out in the owners manual.
Not to mention cash bail. Or municipal violations literally only affecting those without money to make it disappear. And political judges. And groups like the heritage foundation.
I’m just saying, I don’t know how Romanian justice really works in practice, but in the US, we have quite the fucking shit system.
It needs reform, that’s a fact.
You know what’s terrifying? Being judged by people who can’t be nailed to the cross for perversion of justice. That is, jurors.
Many different countries have use different methods for trials. Some countries reserve jury trials for serious criminal offences, some give the accused the option of a bench trial, and some do a mix of judges with juries.
Phoenix Wright moment
Hey! That fact wasn’t fun at all! Interesting, though…
What is the age of adulthood?
18, like the rest of Europe.
Got it. Thank you. I was worried that it was even younger than that. It’s not like any of it is good.
When I think of all the horrible shit that goes on in the world, the thing that keeps me going is that Greta Thunburg is responsible for the Tates getting arrested. Life is wonderful sometimes.
I’m OOTL, can you explain?
legend goes that Greta made the guy mad on xitter and he posted a response that also included a picture of himself with a pizza box, and cops knew where to find him because of the brand on the box, but not sure if it was proven true or not
Supposedly proven false, but I choose to believe because it’s funnier that way.
Of course the police would deny it. They can’t readily admit to browsing the social media of people they want to arrest for info, it would make the technique less effective. The whole story makes sense though, Tate would have been traveling a lot and it would be difficult to guarantee an arrest.
She also told him off for not recycling the pizza boxes and boom busted. Or so the story goes.
IIRC Tate tweeted at Thunberg something about his cars, and in that photo was a pizza box of a Romanian pizza place which lead to police knowing he was in the country.
i remember that haha funniest shit ever… and then he became a hc muslim because he got scared in prison
I can’t remember the details, and too lazy to search it up right now, but I think it was like Greta and him were having a Twitter argument, and he maybe posted a photo with a background that accidentally disclosed his location, so authorities who were already looking to arrest him were able to act on it.
Pizza box with an identifiable store narrowing down his location. Romanian police say the brothers whereabouts were already known due to an ongoing investigation, but the timing of the arrest sure is funny.
I mean, there are many addresses within the vicinity of any given pizza place. Pretty doubtful that nothing but a pizza box could reveal exactly where somebody is.
“Hey Pizza Shop, it’s The Law here. Did you have any orders for an ‘A. Tate’ recently? You did? Where did you deliver them to? Ok, thanks.”
Stupider things have happened and if I was a detective you’d be damn sure I’d at least give this a try.
Don’t forget to give that fucking moron Adin Ross his flowers too.
There’s a lot more good stuff out there. It just doesn’t get articles, clicks, or social media shares.
You see mostly things that get you outraged all the time largely because everyone is addicted to outrage.
Literally every sane person on social media called this guy out as a pedo 2 years ago.
I can’t believe people STILL idolize him…
Justice is rare and wonderful
Will Ferrell: “Real justice, sooo hot right now.”
Couldn’t happen to a more deserving soul.
He keeps getting “caught”, put under house arrest, left to his own devices, charges dropped, and then “caught” again.
Beginning to think they’re not actually going to sentence this guy
“The manhunt for Tate’s chin will continue.”
According to the BBC, those charges are still ongoing.
The Tate brothers have previously been charged with human trafficking - and Andrew Tate charged with rape - and are awaiting trial on those charges. They were released from house arrest a year ago and told not to leave Romania.
They have always strongly denied any wrongdoing and deny the formal charges they face.
According to a timeline put together by Glamour, those charges are still active.
Tate is out on house arrest while awaiting trial.
Very good.
Lock this fucker up and throw away the key.
Again?! Throw him in prison already!
that’s the idea, im guessing. they need to build a case first
An outcome that was on everyone’s bingo card.
Can somebody explain to me why it’s taking so long for Tate to get sentenced?
Good. He’s a bad person and doesn’t deserve to be happy.
Good move by the police here.
What the fuck is it with famous internet people and kids?
Famous internet people are generally willing to exploit people for their own gain. Not all of them, but particularly the most famous and powerful. The ones who aren’t usually can’t become as large. If you’re willing to exploit people for fame, money, and influence, you probably aren’t going to stop there.
Yeah, but they can’t just get bimbos with big fake tits who love them for their money and not their character like a normal rich asshole?
Do you think normal rich assholes aren’t doing this stuff? That’s the whole issue with the Epstein stuff. Basically every rich asshole was involved. It takes a certain type of person to become so rich and powerful. Those people tend to like to have even more power over people, which makes minors the perfect target for them.
Never trust a rich and/or powerful person to be good; you’ll only be disappointed.
Are you meaning to imply that people with a likely pathological obsession for obtaining and exercising power over others might be driven to seek greater and greater levels of power disparity such as leveraging their position, influence, and money to exploit those who, legally, can have ownership over none of those things and are psychologically and developmentally incapable of informed consent?
If so, all evidence appears to be pointing towards you being correct.
Yes.
Chrystal Kizer did nothing wrong.
Removed by mod
